PFT take on King Carl v Saban - Page 3

SBK · 04-03-2005, 11:37 AM

CHIEFS, FINS NEED A FACE-SAVER With the Chiefs and cornerback Patrick Surtain in agreement on a long-term deal, the only obstacle to consummation is the fact that Surtain is still the property of the Dolphins. And the two teams have their heels dug in tighter than a six-year-old who's been asked to kiss Auntie Moustache. The Fins want a second-round pick and won't budge. The Chiefs will give up a four. And won't budge. A reasonable person might look at this situation and conclude that a third-rounder will get it done. But reasonableness goes out the window when marble-headed guys like the Nicktator and King Carl are at the bargaining table, even if the Chiefs had a third-rounder which they could trade (which they don't, due to the John Wellbourn trade). So, as one league insider 'splained to us, the two sides will need a way to create the impression that they got that they wanted (or more) without giving up anything of consequence. A superficial meeting in the middle, in order words, likely won't be enough. Instead, it will require some creativity, possibly introduced through an intermediary. Perhaps the deal happens with a fourth-round pick now and a conditional second-rounder in 2005, based on Surtain's playing time or picks. Then, it's a win-win -- if the Chiefs end up giving up more down the road, it's only because Surtain has exceeded expectations in K.C. Either way, stubbornness simply won't git 'er done. A second-round pick is too much for a guy whom the team has written out of its plans for the future. A fourth-round pick, however, is too low, given that the Pats gave up a third-round pick a month ago for Duane Starks. Even though the stakes are slightly different, the psychological realities at play here are no different than the stare-down in which Kennedy and Kruschev engaged when the Soviets started shipping certain oversized cigars into Cuba. Whether the issue is the location of a 28-year-old cornerback or the destruction of a multimillion-year-old planet, hard-headed men would rather do stupid than be perceived weak. So a resolution to this one is hardly a no-brainer, and it will require a solution that enables both Saban and Peterson to persuade themselves (and, more importantly, others) that they got the better end of the bargain.

KCJake · 04-03-2005, 03:01 PM

"A second-round pick is too much for a guy whom the team has written out of its plans for the future."
Agreed

Mr. Laz · 04-03-2005, 03:03 PM

hopefully we give a 5th this year and a 3rd next year ... that would be fantastic

beer bacon · 04-03-2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

hopefully we give a 5th this year and a 3rd next year ... that would be fantastic

That would be like a 4th and 5th this year. I think we would at least need to offer a 2nd next year.

Miami Mike · 04-03-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

hopefully we give a 5th this year and a 3rd next year ... that would be fantastic

That was funny.

Archie Bunker · 04-03-2005, 03:12 PM

Saban needs to come out in the media and say the price is now a 1st then Carl would give up a 2nd and be able to say "I stole him away." Getting him for a 4th and maybe a conditional pick next year would be sweet but I am not sure it will happen.

Just get it done. I don't care if it happens tomorrow, next week, or draft day. I think Surtain will be a Chief but it will be on Miami's terms not KC's.

Mr. Laz · 04-03-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miami Mike

That was funny.

thanks

Miami Mike · 04-03-2005, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

And if you want to talk "2nd tier" cornerback trades, you can throw out McKenzie's name all you want, but, as the original article mentioned, Duane Starks went to the New England Patriots for one of the last picks of the third round barely a month ago.

Starks is a "3rd tier" CB that was a flop in Arizona, I can name 30 CB`s off the top of my head that are better.

Thats why he fetched a 3rd.

**Bowser** · 04-03-2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miami Mike

Starks is a "3rd tier" CB that was a flop in Arizona, I can name 30 CB`s off the top of my head that are better.

Aaaaand.......GO!

Mr. Laz · 04-03-2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miami Mike

Starks is a "3rd tier" CB that was a flop in Arizona, I can name 30 CB`s off the top of my head that are better.

Thats why he fetched a 3rd.

if surtain wasn't up for a brand new schpankity contract, he would be worth a 1st round pick.... but then again he wouldn't be up for trade then either.

the new contract influences his worth

i say a 2nd round pick NEXT year is a reasonable compromise.

saban gets to save face by getting his 2nd rounder... the chiefs get a slight reduction in cost by having it be next year.

keg in kc · 04-03-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miami Mike

Starks is a "3rd tier" CB that was a flop in Arizona, I can name 30 CB`s off the top of my head that are better.

Thats why he fetched a 3rd.

The point is the Chiefs will use that trade in their side of the negotiation, just like the dullfins will use the McKenzie trade. And the McKenzie example is weak on it's own merit because it was a future pick. Which means it grades down roughly a round lower, to the equivalent of a 3rd, just like if we traded our '06 2nd (which most of us agree with) for Surtain. Something I think all of us would go for.

keg in kc · 04-03-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

if surtain wasn't up for a brand new schpankity contract, he would be worth a 1st round pick.... but then again he wouldn't be up for trade then either.

the new contract influences his worth.

Exactly.

SBK · 04-03-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

if surtain wasn't up for a brand new schpankity contract, he would be worth a 1st round pick.... but then again he wouldn't be up for trade then either.

the new contract influences his worth

i say a 2nd round pick NEXT year is a reasonable compromise.

saban gets to save face by getting his 2nd rounder... the chiefs get a slight reduction in cost by having it be next year.

And maybe out of the blue The King retires and then that 2nd pick next year looks a lot better than the one he uses for a ginormous bust this year.

Lets just get this deal done already.

HolmeZz · 04-03-2005, 03:34 PM

I'd rather give up our 2nd rounder this season. Just taking a glance at the talent available next year, I think the '06 draft will be better than this years.

Miami Mike · 04-03-2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

The point is the Chiefs will use that trade in their side of the negotiation, just like the dullfins will use the McKenzie trade. And the McKenzie example is weak on it's own merit because it was a future pick. Which means it grades down roughly a round lower, to the equivalent of a 3rd, just like if we traded our '06 2nd (which most of us agree with) for Surtain. Something I think all of us would go for.

Exactly.....

An`06 2nd is basically a 3rd.......

We are not going to trade a top five corner for one measley 3rd round pick.

There is no way Surtain goes anywhere for less then the value of a second round draft choice of this year.

We will just keep him and use our Franchise tag on him next year.

Or let him leave as a free agent and get a 3rd round pick as a compensatory.

Or Tag him and then trade him.....

He`s under contract, his salary is covered under our cap....

We can wait another year.....

Can the Chiefs?

Nightfyre · 04-03-2005, 03:55 PM

Maybe we want to keep next years second to trade up in the draft and take some prospect we're already looking at?

04-03-2005, 11:37 AM
SBK Curry is the pick??? Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Casino cash: $10004900	PFT take on King Carl v Saban CHIEFS, FINS NEED A FACE-SAVER With the Chiefs and cornerback Patrick Surtain in agreement on a long-term deal, the only obstacle to consummation is the fact that Surtain is still the property of the Dolphins. And the two teams have their heels dug in tighter than a six-year-old who's been asked to kiss Auntie Moustache. The Fins want a second-round pick and won't budge. The Chiefs will give up a four. And won't budge. A reasonable person might look at this situation and conclude that a third-rounder will get it done. But reasonableness goes out the window when marble-headed guys like the Nicktator and King Carl are at the bargaining table, even if the Chiefs had a third-rounder which they could trade (which they don't, due to the John Wellbourn trade). So, as one league insider 'splained to us, the two sides will need a way to create the impression that they got that they wanted (or more) without giving up anything of consequence. A superficial meeting in the middle, in order words, likely won't be enough. Instead, it will require some creativity, possibly introduced through an intermediary. Perhaps the deal happens with a fourth-round pick now and a conditional second-rounder in 2005, based on Surtain's playing time or picks. Then, it's a win-win -- if the Chiefs end up giving up more down the road, it's only because Surtain has exceeded expectations in K.C. Either way, stubbornness simply won't git 'er done. A second-round pick is too much for a guy whom the team has written out of its plans for the future. A fourth-round pick, however, is too low, given that the Pats gave up a third-round pick a month ago for Duane Starks. Even though the stakes are slightly different, the psychological realities at play here are no different than the stare-down in which Kennedy and Kruschev engaged when the Soviets started shipping certain oversized cigars into Cuba. Whether the issue is the location of a 28-year-old cornerback or the destruction of a multimillion-year-old planet, hard-headed men would rather do stupid than be perceived weak. So a resolution to this one is hardly a no-brainer, and it will require a solution that enables both Saban and Peterson to persuade themselves (and, more importantly, others) that they got the better end of the bargain.
Posts: 8,153

04-03-2005, 03:01 PM	#31
KCJake Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Casino cash: $3405775	"A second-round pick is too much for a guy whom the team has written out of its plans for the future." Agreed
Posts: 4,516

04-03-2005, 03:03 PM	#32
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	hopefully we give a 5th this year and a 3rd next year ... that would be fantastic __________________
Posts: 95,626

04-03-2005, 03:12 PM	#35
Archie Bunker The Wait Is Over Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Random Small Town Casino cash: $2058978	Saban needs to come out in the media and say the price is now a 1st then Carl would give up a 2nd and be able to say "I stole him away." Getting him for a 4th and maybe a conditional pick next year would be sweet but I am not sure it will happen. Just get it done. I don't care if it happens tomorrow, next week, or draft day. I think Surtain will be a Chief but it will be on Miami's terms not KC's.
Posts: 6,191

04-03-2005, 03:34 PM	#43
HolmeZz i guess its bittersweet poetry Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NeW HaVeN, CT Casino cash: $10004900	I'd rather give up our 2nd rounder this season. Just taking a glance at the talent available next year, I think the '06 draft will be better than this years.
Posts: 16,520

04-03-2005, 03:55 PM	#45
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $3678849	Maybe we want to keep next years second to trade up in the draft and take some prospect we're already looking at?
Posts: 18,538