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Old 02-19-2014, 08:14 PM  
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Anyone Following The Protests In The Ukraine?

I've been seeing some impressive pics of protests in Kiev.


Protests against new anti-democratic laws in Ukraine are increasing in intensity, with four citizens reported dead. As you can see in these extraordinary images by Ilya Varlamov, the demonstrators are using rockets made with fireworks. They look like scenes from some science-fiction movie about urban warfare.

The latest reports talk about at least four people killed and hundreds injured by the police. After the massive protests against the government's rejection against the European Union in favor of an alliance with the former Russian oppressors, Kiev officials announced new repressive laws limiting the people's right to protest. These urban battles are the people's reaction to those laws.

Ukraine was a former Soviet Republic, created after a civil war between pro-communist and the Ukrainian People's Republic armies at the beginning of the 20th century, right after the fall of the Russian Empire. The communists won, and the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was established. In theory, it was an independent state, but in fact—like all republics in the USSR and satellite countries—it was under a tight control by the Kremlin.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/spectacula...rai-1507432049

Pics to follow...
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Old Yesterday, 11:45 PM   #2641
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Not that its specific to this subject, but reading this thread brought into full view a realization that's been dawning on me for a while, if this board is a fair representation of a cross section of America... then this nation hasn't been this divided in FOREVER.

Not even during the Bush years was there such a variance of opinion... people who used to march more or less in lockstep now disagree frequently and strange bedfellows abound on various yet distinct issues etc... I've been watching it all for a few years now and its true.

Things are upside****ing down right now, this DC forum proves it, IMO.

God... er, I mean "deity" bless your hearts.
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Old Yesterday, 11:51 PM   #2642
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Yep, I bet Prison Bitch voted for McCain in 2008. If this was McCain's 2nd term, there would be 20,000 US troops in Kiev right now. PB would of course support this.
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Old Today, 05:52 AM   #2643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pants View Post
Yep, I bet Prison Bitch voted for McCain in 2008. If this was McCain's 2nd term, there would be 20,000 US troops in Kiev right now. PB would of course support this.
I doubt that is really true, but to be fair, we don't know what Obama would be doing if the midterm elections weren't coming up later this year. (Which factor I'm sure Putin has considered)
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Old Today, 10:35 AM   #2644
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U.S. ground troops going to Poland, defense minister says
BY FRED HIATT
The Washington Post
April 18

Poland and the United States will announce next week the deployment of U.S. ground forces to Poland as part of an expansion of NATO presence in Central and Eastern Europe in response to events in Ukraine. That was the word from Poland’s defense minister, Tomasz Siemoniak, who visited The Post Friday after meeting with Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel at the Pentagon on Thursday.

Siemoniak said the decision has been made on a political level and that military planners are working out details. There will also be intensified cooperation in air defense, special forces, cyberdefense and other areas. Poland will play a leading regional role, “under U.S. patronage,” he said.

But the defense minister also said that any immediate NATO response to Russian aggression in Ukraine, while important, matter less than a long-term shift in the defense postures of Europe and America. The United States, having announced a “pivot” to Asia, needs to “re-pivot” to Europe, he said, and European countries that have cut back on defense spending need to reverse the trends.

“The idea until recently was that there were no more threats in Europe and no need for a U.S. presence in Europe any more,” Siemoniak said, speaking through an interpreter. “Events show that what is needed is a re-pivot, and that Europe was safe and secure because America was in Europe.”

How likely is such a reversal on defense spending? Siemoniak said there was widespread support at a recent meeting of European defense ministers. “Now they’ll go back to their presidents, prime ministers and ministers of finance, and this will stop being easy,” he admitted. “But the impetus is very strong.”

The strongest impetus, he said, is not even Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea, but President Vladimir Putin’s bald lies about Russian actions there and his exposition of a new doctrine allowing Russia to intervene in any country where Russian-speaking populations are, in Russia’s judgment, under threat. This poses a potential danger to the Baltic nations, which are members of NATO, and even more to Moldova, Belarus and central Asian nations that are not, he said.

Like President Obama, Siemoniak said it’s too soon to judge the agreement reached Thursday in Geneva to defuse tensions. He said he believes that Russia’s “special operation in eastern Ukraine didn’t go as planned” and that Putin may have decided to play a longer game.

“He holds different instruments that he can use to influence events in Ukraine,” Siemoniak said. Putin will keep in reserve the option of an outright military incursion, “but the political, military and financial costs would be gigantic.” The 46-year-old minister mused that until recently NATO was wondering what mission it would have, if any, once its troops came home from Afghanistan.

“Now we have an answer to that question,” he said.

Fred Hiatt is the editorial page editor of The Post. He writes editorials for the newspaper and a biweekly column that appears on Mondays. He also contributes to the PostPartisan blog. Hiatt has been with The Post since 1981.
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Old Today, 10:38 AM   #2645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
U.S. ground troops going to Poland, defense minister says
BY FRED HIATT
The Washington Post
April 18

Poland and the United States will announce next week the deployment of U.S. ground forces to Poland as part of an expansion of NATO presence in Central and Eastern Europe in response to events in Ukraine. That was the word from Poland’s defense minister, Tomasz Siemoniak, who visited The Post Friday after meeting with Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel at the Pentagon on Thursday.

Siemoniak said the decision has been made on a political level and that military planners are working out details. There will also be intensified cooperation in air defense, special forces, cyberdefense and other areas. Poland will play a leading regional role, “under U.S. patronage,” he said.

But the defense minister also said that any immediate NATO response to Russian aggression in Ukraine, while important, matter less than a long-term shift in the defense postures of Europe and America. The United States, having announced a “pivot” to Asia, needs to “re-pivot” to Europe, he said, and European countries that have cut back on defense spending need to reverse the trends.

“The idea until recently was that there were no more threats in Europe and no need for a U.S. presence in Europe any more,” Siemoniak said, speaking through an interpreter. “Events show that what is needed is a re-pivot, and that Europe was safe and secure because America was in Europe.”

How likely is such a reversal on defense spending? Siemoniak said there was widespread support at a recent meeting of European defense ministers. “Now they’ll go back to their presidents, prime ministers and ministers of finance, and this will stop being easy,” he admitted. “But the impetus is very strong.”

The strongest impetus, he said, is not even Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea, but President Vladimir Putin’s bald lies about Russian actions there and his exposition of a new doctrine allowing Russia to intervene in any country where Russian-speaking populations are, in Russia’s judgment, under threat. This poses a potential danger to the Baltic nations, which are members of NATO, and even more to Moldova, Belarus and central Asian nations that are not, he said.

Like President Obama, Siemoniak said it’s too soon to judge the agreement reached Thursday in Geneva to defuse tensions. He said he believes that Russia’s “special operation in eastern Ukraine didn’t go as planned” and that Putin may have decided to play a longer game.

“He holds different instruments that he can use to influence events in Ukraine,” Siemoniak said. Putin will keep in reserve the option of an outright military incursion, “but the political, military and financial costs would be gigantic.” The 46-year-old minister mused that until recently NATO was wondering what mission it would have, if any, once its troops came home from Afghanistan.

“Now we have an answer to that question,” he said.

Fred Hiatt is the editorial page editor of The Post. He writes editorials for the newspaper and a biweekly column that appears on Mondays. He also contributes to the PostPartisan blog. Hiatt has been with The Post since 1981.


Oh, great. Now I'm going to have to show kids where Poland is.
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Old Today, 11:34 AM   #2646
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Ole Vlad now referring to Eastern Ukraine as "New Russia," eh? That's nice.
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Old Today, 11:55 AM   #2647
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Must make sure cable bill is paid..... There's another war a'brewin!!!

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Old Today, 12:16 PM   #2648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pants View Post
Yep, I bet Prison Bitch voted for McCain in 2008. If this was McCain's 2nd term, there would be 20,000 US troops in Kiev right now. PB would of course support this.
Lmao

I hate Juan McAmnesty. Always have always will. Frankly I'm insulted you would ever think I'd pull the lever for that coot, and I am pretty isolationist if you haven't figured that out yet
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Old Today, 12:23 PM   #2649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Not that its specific to this subject, but reading this thread brought into full view a realization that's been dawning on me for a while, if this board is a fair representation of a cross section of America... then this nation hasn't been this divided in FOREVER.

Not even during the Bush years was there such a variance of opinion... people who used to march more or less in lockstep now disagree frequently and strange bedfellows abound on various yet distinct issues etc... I've been watching it all for a few years now and its true.

Things are upside****ing down right now, this DC forum proves it, IMO.

God... er, I mean "deity" bless your hearts.

What's really scary: the slavish devotion several of our posters have to the US-approved talking points. The Dong-Listo-Patteu-Pants have literally been 100% in favor of whatever we've said or done. Contrasted with Buc & I who have posted at least some anti-Russian links and have built our arguments on the fact it's not even our business regardless who is right or wrong.


When The Dong was asked point blank to name even one thing he thought we were wrong or lying about, he froze like a scared 3rd grader being called out by a teacher.
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Old Today, 03:54 PM   #2650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
What's really scary: the slavish devotion several of our posters have to the US-approved talking points. The Dong-Listo-Patteu-Pants have literally been 100% in favor of whatever we've said or done. Contrasted with Buc & I who have posted at least some anti-Russian links and have built our arguments on the fact it's not even our business regardless who is right or wrong.


When The Dong was asked point blank to name even one thing he thought we were wrong or lying about, he froze like a scared 3rd grader being called out by a teacher.
Well, no, actually you've lied to try to make it look as if the current Ukrainian government is illegitimate, and BEP has attempted to redefine the notion of sovereignty itself, to act as Putin apologists. Because you made up your mind about this issue while still ignorant, and you've done your best to remain ignorant, regardless of what anyone posts, to avoid backing out of your foolish original stance. But keep ****ing that chicken.
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Old Today, 03:57 PM   #2651
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Well, no, actually you've lied to try to make it look as if the current Ukrainian government is illegitimate, and BEP has attempted to redefine the notion of sovereignty itself, to act as Putin apologists. Because you made up your mind about this issue while still ignorant, and you've done your best to remain ignorant, regardless of what anyone posts, to avoid backing out of your foolish original stance. But keep ****ing that chicken.

See what I mean?
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Old Today, 04:00 PM   #2652
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See what I mean?
You can't read?
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Old Today, 05:28 PM   #2653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
When The Dong was asked point blank to name even one thing he thought we were wrong or lying about, he froze like a scared 3rd grader being called out by a teacher.


You're approaching BEP-level now (which isn't a good thing, BTW). I told you what I thought Obama did wrong here (publicly saying that we wouldn't intervene if Ukraine was invaded). You are just choosing to ignore it because it doesn't fit your conceived ideas.

That sounds vaguely familiar....

IMO, other than that, Obama is doing what he should be doing in response to these events.
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