Obamacare is postponed one year for...

[Msmith]

...large corporations.

ObamaCare is still going into effect in 2014, but one key component of it is being temporarily shelved. The White House today postponed by one year a rule requiring employers to either provide coverage to employees or face hefty fines, reports the Wall Street Journal. The rule will take effect in 2015, instead of 2014...

Link: http://www.newser.com/story/170420/b...-one-year.html

It is better to duck the rising premium during the election year. Smart move!

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

Well, I have agreed with you on things in the past, I just disagree with you on other stuff..

Hell ive even green repped you before on stuff.

I'm not just a lock-step partisan. I have some issues where I am much more 'conservative' and others much more liberal...

I think people like me are more and more common?

I'm pretty sure I was just goofing on you, but fair points all around.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Sure it is. Obamacare has already bent the cost curve of healthcare over much of the country, just as it has happened in Massachussetts under Romneycare -- imagine that. .

How? Only minor parts are functional and most of the provisions don't take effect until next year.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

SInce you seem to like answering questions with questions:

1) were your rates rising BEFORE Obama care?

2) do you think your rates wouldve risen without the passage of Obama care?

3) do you think insurance exchanges and getting everyone into the insurance pool (like Massachusetts) has any chance to lower costs?

4) do you think that having a choice between many health care insurance companies and being able to switch plans more easily would help competition , and MAYBE reduce prices ?

1 and 2) yes but not as steeply.
3) under Obamacare not a chance. In some hippy co-op world where we all hold hands and do what is best, possibly.
4)I am ALL for this one, didn't need Obamacare for this though. This problem was a result of earlier govt protectionism of big insurance that should have never been in place.

[Pawnmower]

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

With Obamacare you don't have that. You've got millions of more people now getting the same services that don't pay the same amount. Millions of people will get insurance basically free or at a greatly subsidized price.

Yes, insurance...but no not for free.

The thing you fail to get STILL even after I have explained it to you is they ALREADY get health CARE and we (the workers) ALREADY pay for it, and its insanely expensive.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

That's actually the worst kept secret about Obamacare. It is built on exchanges, which are designed to enhance competitiveness in the health insurance market. Pre-Obamacare, to call the health insurance industry a healthy free market was laughable at best.

This is one of the only things I am 100% behind. Obamacare of course had to do it in a ****ed up overly bureaucratic govt interfering way but THIS is at least a half assed step in the right direction that I can get behind.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

Yes, insurance...but no not for free.

The thing you fail to get STILL even after I have explained it to you is they ALREADY get health CARE and we (the workers) ALREADY pay for it, and its insanely expensive.

What you have yet to explain then is where these massive saving are then? I certainly am not seeing them. If you are reducing an insanely expensive cost from the system then we should see a tangible cost benefit for those of us already paying. Yet we aren't.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I love how that's not a rebuttal to a single thing I've said.

What's to rebut? You're the one trying to lay blame on the blameless.

Get it through your head..no Repubs voted for this and to say the Dems had not counted on that is as stupid as passing a bill they knew nothing about. It was no secret the Repubs would not vote for this yet here you are trying to pass that shit off.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

This is one of the only things I am 100% behind. Obamacare of course had to do it in a ****ed up overly bureaucratic govt interfering way

Even that is an unfair criticism. Obamacare actually undoes a shit ton of the red tape that has ****ed up the healthcare insurance industry.

Obamacare reduces red tape on that front. It makes the single largest improvement in American history towards being able to easily buy health insurance across state lines, something everybody and their mother wants.

Again, this was a Republican idea. It's simply been accepted and pragmatically supported by a Democratic President who was willing to settle on it as a compromise.

A compromise that has been treated as the second coming of the Third Reich by the GOP.

[Prison Bitch]

Pete, it's just like the stimulus: if it works, take full credit for the success. If it fails, just blame the GOP for wrecking it. No lose politics.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by petegz28

What's to rebut? You're the one trying to lay blame on the blameless.

Blameless. Interesting.

Say the Democrats put up a bill today saying "let's repeal the employer mandate and replace it with a drastically less damaging solution for employers, such as having to provide health insurance to their employees on a per capita basis rather than an arbitrary 50+ employees limit."

You tell me, Pete: What percentage of Democrats vote for that, and what percentage of Republicans vote for it?

My guess, 90+% of Democrats vote for it. 0% of Republicans vote for it.

So you tell me -- if Democrats vote to get rid of this policy in the law, but Republicans don't vote for it, who's to blame for it remaining in the law?

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Even that is an unfair criticism. Obamacare actually undoes a shit ton of the red tape that has ****ed up the healthcare insurance industry.

Obamacare reduces red tape on that front. It makes the single largest improvement in American history towards being able to easily buy health insurance across state lines, something everybody and their mother wants.

Again, this was a Republican idea. It's simply been accepted and pragmatically supported by a Democratic President who was willing to settle on it as a compromise.

A compromise that has been treated as the second coming of the Third Reich by the GOP.

I agree with most of this.. it was still half assed. I would prefer to have seen giant swaths of red tape removed instead we got significant barriers reduced but nothing close to free market. Like I said, half assed but it is the right direction and has my support.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I agree with most of this.. it was still half assed. I would prefer to have seen giant swaths of red tape removed instead we got significant barriers reduced but nothing close to free market. Like I said, half assed but it is the right direction and has my support.

Fair enough.

[Pawnmower]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

What you have yet to explain then is where these massive saving are then? I certainly am not seeing them.

The main parts of the plan are not going into effect until 2014 and 2015, what do you expect?

I doubt seriously it has had had any effect on prices...

In my opinion, we need to actually be able to see some data before jumping to conclusions...How can we have any data at this point, when the plan isnt fully implemented for over a year more?

And even then it might take a little longer for competition and more people entering the pool to have any effect on pricing...

I think you are being unrealistic here, but hey you are the genius so you tell me.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Blameless. Interesting.

Say the Democrats put up a bill today saying "let's repeal the employer mandate and replace it with a drastically less damaging solution for employers, such as having to provide health insurance to their employees on a per capita basis rather than an arbitrary 50+ employees limit."

You tell me, Pete: What percentage of Democrats vote for that, and what percentage of Republicans vote for it?

My guess, 90+% of Democrats vote for it. 0% of Republicans vote for it.

So you tell me -- if Democrats vote to get rid of this policy in the law, but Republicans don't vote for it, who's to blame for it remaining in the law?

You can sit here and whine and cry all you want. The fact is the Dems shoved this through, no one read it and now they are having to lye in the bed the made and you don't like it. To sit here and blame the Repubs for anything at all is just pure bullshit and shows what ****ing cry baby ****s the Left are.

You wanted Obamacare, you passed Obamacare and now you don't want to deal with the fallout of Obamacare so you blame the people who didn't cast 1 single vote for it.

[Prison Bitch]

But direck says its already lowering costs?