Official 2017 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

My as well get it started. Here's my "Matheny" lineup.....

Fowler CF
Diaz SS
Carpenter 1B
Piscotty RF
Grichuk LF
Molina C
Peralta 3B
Wong 2B
Pitcher

My "Matheny" Starting rotation

Martinez
Reyes
Wainwright
Lynn
Leake

[VAChief]

It wouldn't surprise me if at some point Garcia beats out Wong.

Sure it's spring, but Heywards OPS stands at .455. Seems we really dodged a bullet with that head case. Too bad we didn't try to sign Fowler last year.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by VAChief

Sure it's spring, but Heywards OPS stands at .455. Seems we really dodged a bullet with that head case. Too bad we didn't try to sign Fowler last year.

Heyward is also working on revamping his mechanics and battling with breaking old habits. It may or may not amount to much but then again you still have Piscotty at .466.

[O.city]

He's been working on revamping his swing for 5 years. I'm not sure how thats gonna work out.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by O.city

He's been working on revamping his swing for 5 years. I'm not sure how thats gonna work out.

We'll see but I still think their ultimate plan is to move him to CF. They haven't made any move to permanently fill CF yet. Once Jimenez is ready for the big league I think they'll finally move Heyward to CF and put Jimenez in RF and trade Happ and Almora for some future pitching. I could even see them trading Schwarber if he is really bad in LF and moving Zobrist out there full time, giving Baez 2B. But they would have to get something really special in return from some AL team to give up that bat.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by jd1020

We'll see but I still think their ultimate plan is to move him to CF. They haven't made any move to permanently fill CF yet. Once Jimenez is ready for the big league I think they'll finally move Heyward to CF and put Jimenez in RF and either trade Happ and Almora for some future pitching.

Possibly. Although I'm not sure he would really be a great CF, but he's pretty good defensively.

They need to unload some of those guys for some pitching though, which I thought would have already happened.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

He's been working on revamping his swing for 5 years. I'm not sure how thats gonna work out.

Tell us more about how Wong's working on backfields, Pham's new contacts, Grichuk's new hand placement and how it will help him lay off slop...blah blah blah blah.

At some point (and that point is LOOOOOOOOONG gone for Jason Heyward), these guys just are what they are and no amount of hopes and dreams will changes that.

Seriously, you know that Greg Garcia goes home after another 2/5 day where he ropes a double and sees 25 pitches on his own, looks at the mirror and just shouts "MOTHER. ****ER!!!" because he knows that Kolten Wong, who has never for a single day in his life been a better baseball player than Garcia, will be handed that starting job and $20 million over the next 4 years.

Meanwhile Garcia can't get 300 ABs without an injury. He's better than Wong at all things baseball related. Tony LaRussa had this exact decision in front of him with the enigmatic but talented Colby Rasmus and the less talented but simply better Jon Jay. And LaRussa correctly chose Jon Jay (now he should probably not have savaged Rasmus's trade value at the same time, but that's a different story).

Matheny lacks that intelligence and fortitude. He would never give Garcia the starting job over Wong, the bonus baby with the big guaranteed contract. Nope, we'll keep sending 'Joltin' Kolten' out there to swing through cement mixers with runners in scoring position, botch routine grounders and then get sucked off by Dan when he plays one off his hip to make it look better than it would've when Garcia just got in front of it, knocked it down and then picked it up and threw across for the out.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by O.city

Possibly. Although I'm not sure he would really be a great CF, but he's pretty good defensively.

They need to unload some of those guys for some pitching though, which I thought would have already happened.

Wrigley has a small CF. It's the same CF that made Fowler look like an average defender. I can't imagine any situation that Heyward wouldnt thrive in CF at Wrigley.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Wrigley has a small CF. It's the same CF that made Fowler look like an average defender. I can't imagine any situation that Heyward wouldnt thrive in CF at Wrigley.

He played some center in Busch. I don't think he's a great CF'er.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Tell us more about how Wong's working on backfields, Pham's new contacts, Grichuk's new hand placement and how it will help him lay off slop...blah blah blah blah.

At some point (and that point is LOOOOOOOOONG gone for Jason Heyward), these guys just are what they are and no amount of hopes and dreams will changes that.

Seriously, you know that Greg Garcia goes home after another 2/5 day where he ropes a double and sees 25 pitches on his own, looks at the mirror and just shouts "MOTHER. ****ER!!!" because he knows that Kolten Wong, who has never for a single day in his life been a better baseball player than Garcia, will be handed that starting job and $20 million over the next 4 years.

Meanwhile Garcia can't get 300 ABs without an injury. He's better than Wong at all things baseball related. Tony LaRussa had this exact decision in front of him with the enigmatic but talented Colby Rasmus and the less talented but simply better Jon Jay. And LaRussa correctly chose Jon Jay (now he should probably not have savaged Rasmus's trade value at the same time, but that's a different story).

Matheny lacks that intelligence and fortitude. He would never give Garcia the starting job over Wong, the bonus baby with the big guaranteed contract. Nope, we'll keep sending 'Joltin' Kolten' out there to swing through cement mixers with runners in scoring position, botch routine grounders and then get sucked off by Dan when he plays one off his hip to make it look better than it would've when Garcia just got in front of it, knocked it down and then picked it up and threw across for the out.

True. All of it's true. Sadly, true.

Fowler has had a good spring though, which is nice to see. Yadi was good in the WBC.

I'm just ready for baseball.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by O.city

He played some center in Busch. I don't think he's a great CF'er.

The alleys in Busch are also 20 feet deeper. Fowler has been a horrible defender over his career and he just scraped together a +1 DRS year in CF at Wrigley. He was -12 the year before in Wrigley, -20 in Houston and a combined -21 over his last 3 years in Colorado. Heyward had a +2 DRS in 51 innings in CF for the Cardinals and he had a +4 in CF for the Cubs last year in 171 innings. He would be a much better CF than Fowler. His bat may not be as good, we'll see, but the Cubs would gain Jimenez in RF who has a 70 power rating.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

He played some center in Busch. I don't think he's a great CF'er.

Nor do most metrics.

That said, he's a plus athlete with good instincts. He'd almost certainly get better as he got more comfortable. I suspect he'd be an above average defender in center for them given some time.

But he's also a big man and that's a lot of weight on his legs. I wouldn't be surprised if right about the time he started feeling like CF was 'home', he's start to lose some of the athletic chops to excel at it.

I went from wanting him to get back to his 2012 swing to now thinking the Cubs should just try to get him back to where he was in 14-15 and lead him off. Schwarber batting leadoff in an NL lineup (as has been rumored) is a hell of a waste unless they also intend to bat the pitcher 8th. His ability to drive in runs would be almost worthless from there.

I'd put Zobrist there but if they could get Heyward back up to a .355 OBP with 20 steals, he'd be a big time help in that he would allow them to maintain that savage middle of the order with Bryant - Rizzo - Schwarber - Russell - Contreras. Man...**** those guys and their dozen superstar hitters.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nor do most metrics.

That said, he's a plus athlete with good instincts. He'd almost certainly get better as he got more comfortable. I suspect he'd be an above average defender in center for them given some time.

But he's also a big man and that's a lot of weight on his legs. I wouldn't be surprised if right about the time he started feeling like CF was 'home', he's start to lose some of the athletic chops to excel at it.

I went from wanting him to get back to his 2012 swing to now thinking the Cubs should just try to get him back to where he was in 14-15 and lead him off. Schwarber batting leadoff in an NL lineup (as has been rumored) is a hell of a waste unless they also intend to bat the pitcher 8th. His ability to drive in runs would be almost worthless from there.

I'd put Zobrist there but if they could get Heyward back up to a .355 OBP with 20 steals, he'd be a big time help in that he would allow them to maintain that savage middle of the order with Bryant - Rizzo - Schwarber - Russell - Contreras. Man...**** those guys and their dozen superstar hitters.

Not a bad idea. I think the ship on him being a power bat and the guy we thought he'd be has sailed. But the beauty of the Cubs setup is that they don't need him to be that guy. Let him leadoff, with Zobrist hitting 2nd and set the table for the middle of that lineup.

Sucks to pay that much for what Hayward likely is, but with all the young players they have, it isn't a bid deal.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

True. All of it's true. Sadly, true.

Fowler has had a good spring though, which is nice to see. Yadi was good in the WBC.

I'm just ready for baseball.

I'm ready for baseball as well. Watching Diaz stay on top of a Strasburg fastball at his letters and drive it into RC for an RBI double a couple of weeks ago pretty much got me rock hard.

And yet, I'll see the lineup. And in that lineup we'll have Kolten Wong at 2b and the decaying corpse of Jhonny Peralta at 3b, then I'll be sad again. And in short order we'll see a game where we send $23 million worth of pitcher to the hill in Mike Leake and Brett Cecil....only to cry poor when it comes to extending Yadier Molina. Then I'll be angry again.

Meanwhile the Cubs will continue to accumulate hitters while we try to sell "Hey guys, Paul DeJong can play shortstop now even though he couldn't in the Missouri Valley Conference and Patrick Wisdom learned to hit after not being able to for 7 years!!! I promise!!!"

Ugh....

[O.city]

Originally Posted by jd1020

The alleys in Busch are also 20 feet deeper. Fowler has been a horrible defender over his career and he just scraped together a +1 DRS year in CF at Wrigley. He was -12 the year before in Wrigley, -20 in Houston and a combined -21 over his last 3 years in Colorado. Heyward had a +2 DRS in 51 innings in CF for the Cardinals and he had a +4 in CF for the Cubs last year in 171 innings. He would be a much better CF than Fowler. His bat may not be as good, we'll see, but the Cubs would gain Jimenez in RF who has a 70 power rating.

I think he'd be a good Cf'er. I don't think he'd be great. But with the friendly confines of Wrigley, he might be.

I also don't think his bat will be as good as Fowlers.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm ready for baseball as well. Watching Diaz stay on top of a Strasburg fastball at his letters and drive it into RC for an RBI double a couple of weeks ago pretty much got me rock hard.

And yet, I'll see the lineup. And in that lineup we'll have Kolten Wong at 2b and the decaying corpse of Jhonny Peralta at 3b, then I'll be sad again. And in short order we'll see a game where we send $23 million worth of pitcher to the hill in Mike Leake and Brett Cecil....only to cry poor when it comes to extending Yadier Molina. Then I'll be angry again.

Meanwhile the Cubs will continue to accumulate hitters while we try to sell "Hey guys, Paul DeJong can play shortstop now even though he couldn't in the Missouri Valley Conference and Patrick Wisdom learned to hit after not being able to for 7 years!!! I promise!!!"

Ugh....

There's no way Yadi isn't a Cardinal next year. I'll believe it when I see it.

And I'll watch Peralta lumber out there for a year if you promise me I get to see Machado wear the birds on the bat for the next 10 years at 3rd base.