Chiefs What The Niners did with the Picks from the AS trade - Page 9

DTLB58 · 01:14 AM

From MMQB
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/12/the-20...with-a-kiss/3/

Now that we see the final product of what the Niners gave away and received in the Alex Smith trade from 14 months ago, we can judge one thing about San Francisco GM Trent Baalke: He is calculating, he is fast, and he knows how to set up his team for the future.

The result, first, of the 2013 trade of Smith to Kansas City for a pair of second-round draft picks. The two second-round picks, or their tributaries, were traded a total of five times over the past two drafts, and here’s how it shook out after this year’s draft.

Surrendered
QB Alex Smith

Acquired*
DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

* Lemonier was acquired in part with a tributary pick stemming from the Smith trade, and Johnson was acquired from Buffalo on Friday for a fourth-round conditional pick in 2015. That’s included here because San Francisco obtained a fourth-round pick in 2015 from Denver for the second-round pick that originally belonged to Kansas City—so the two picks, arguably, will end up canceling each other out.
Now the story. In the span of 22 minutes Friday, Baalke consummated three trades. One: He traded the 56th pick in the second round (the second Kansas City second-rounder) to Denver for the 63rdand 171st this year, and the Broncos’ fourth-round pick next year. Two: Baalke traded the 63rd and 171stpicks just acquired from Denver to Miami for the 57th pick in the draft; Baalke got the player he would have picked at 56, Carlos Hyde, at 57 … while adding the fourth-rounder next year that replaced the pick used to get Stevie Johnson. Three: He traded his own second-round pick, 61st overall, to Jacksonville for the 70th and 150th picks.

Baalke explained that he and COO Paraag Marathe work the phone and line up prospective trades, and it was hectic because there were a couple of other teams calling in that 22-minute span trying to get one or more of the Niners’ picks at 56 and 61. “That span you talked about was a little bit of a grind,” Baalke said late Saturday night. “A lot of action, a lot of things to consider. Paraag’s the best in the business at lining things up, and then we make the decision. After we made the trade with Denver, I thought we might be able to get Carlos at 61, but then we called [Miami] at 57 and figured we could use what we got from Denver in this year’s draft and keep next year’s pick and move up to make sure we got him. And it allowed us basically to get our four back, which we used to trade for Stevie.”

This isn’t a case of San Francisco fleecing Denver. But it is an example of Baalke doing the smart thing, and waiting till a needy team is either on the clock or frothing after a certain player. That was Denver with wide receiver Cody Latimer, who the Broncos project to replace Eric Decker right away. If he works out the way John Elway thinks, surrendering the four next year will be nothing.

Time will tell if Baalke made the haul worth it. The five pieces the Smith deal yielded:

Carradine will get on the field healthy for the first time as a Niner this month. He missed all of last season with an ACL tear. He’ll be the third man in the 3-4 defensive end rotation with the aging Justin Smith and Ray McDonald, and move inside on some four-lineman snaps. He’s being groomed to start in the 3-4 scheme when Smith or McDonald are gone.
Lemonierplayed 284 snaps, mostly subbing for the idle Aldon Smith last year, and will be in the outside-linebacker rotation with Michael Wilhoite and Nick Moody, competing for time.
Borlandis an accomplished college player, and produced an amazing 27 turnovers in his Wisconsin career. But he’s only 5-11 ½, and he could be a first-down player only (against the run). “It’ll be interesting to see if his game translates to the NFL,” said defensive coordinator Vic Fangio. However, with NaVorro Bowman expect to be sidelined until at least November rehabbing a sere knee injury, there’s a spot on the Niners’ D at inside ‘backer waiting to be won, and Borland will get a solid crack at it. “I’ve heard people talk about his size, and his short arms,” said Baalke. “But he’s a guy with instincts. All those short did somehow was rack up over 400 tackles in the Big Ten.”
Hyde should be able to make the move from the Big 10 to the NFL much easier. He’s the heir to Frank Gore, a 230-pound bruiser with enough moves to be an every-down back. That is, if Gore ever slows down.
Johnson is still only 27, but he had a down year last year with the Bills. He’s not the speedster the Niners sought this offseason to help de-pressurize Anquan Boldin and Michael Crabtree, but he should be a good third receiver and an adequate piece to San Francisco’s underachieving receiver group.
I asked Baalke about his feelings on the trade now that the chips are known. “Mixed emotions,’’ he said. “I have so much respect for Alex Smith and his family, and great regard for him as a player. He’s the epitome of a good man and teammate and a good player. I know the Kansas City Chiefs staff, and they are thrilled to have him. We’ll see how it works out for us. It’s still early.”

Jakemall · 05-12-2014, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

And that's how they lost out on Marcus Cooper.

They lost out on Cooper because they refused to believe that he could be better than Nnamdi. They gambled that they could get him on the PS. They lost the gamble.

ChiefsCountry · 05-12-2014, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

Palmer turned the ball over 15! times more than Alex Smith.

You really don't think 15 more turnovers last year would have cost us 3+ games? Seriously?

9 of Palmer's interceptions were against the 49ers and Seahawks.

Jakemall · 05-12-2014, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

I disagree

imo when you roster is talented you should trade up and grab the higher players that fit you specific needs.

Quantity over quality is what crappy teams use because they might get lucky and have several guys make their roster

If you could accurately determine who the best player is at a given pick, great. Most NFL GMs don't hit accurately enough to make it statistically worth while.

htismaqe · 05-12-2014, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

9 of Palmer's interceptions were against the 49ers and Seahawks.

Good thing we don't have him NOW then, since we face both of them.

Jakemall · 05-12-2014, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Good thing we don't have him NOW then, since we face both of them.

, true.

ChiefsCountry · 05-12-2014, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Good thing we don't have him NOW then, since we face both of them.

I really don't think who we lineup under center is going to matter that much this season though.

htismaqe · 05-12-2014, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

I really don't think who we lineup under center is going to matter that much this season though.

Alex Smith is better than Carson Palmer. There's no contest there.

Halfcan · 05-12-2014, 01:40 PM

I imagine we will be adding a dozen undrafted guys to this list soon.

Jakemall · 05-12-2014, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

I really don't think who we lineup under center is going to matter that much this season though.

Matt Cassell says hi.

ChiefsCountry · 05-12-2014, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Alex Smith is better than Carson Palmer. There's no contest there.

They both suck to be honest, but to say we would have had a losing record with Palmer when he had a winning record playing a harder schedule is just ludicrous.

Exoter175 · 05-12-2014, 02:10 PM

So this is who they got.

DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013)
LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013)
LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014)
RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014)
WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder)

And we got Alex Smith.

Call me the 1%, but I'm happy about our trade. Would those two 2nd rounders have gotten us a pro bowl caliber QB? Nope. Sure we'd have maybe 1 more defensive starter, or maybe another linemen, but is a Starting Free Safety or a Starting Right Guard worth dealing with Matt Cassel again?

God no.

And to the people thinking we got raped, I'll give you this, the course of transactions between Kansas City and San Fran last year.

Them:
2nd round pick 2013
2nd round pick 2014
WR Johnathan Baldwin (Trade)

Us:
QB Alex Smith (Trade)
WR AJ Jenkins (Trade)
Marcus Cooper (Waivers)

Looks to me like we got 2-3 of this years' starters from 2 trades and a waiver grab, and it only cost us two 2nd rounders.

I'd happily give up 2 2nd rounders right now for Alex and Marcus alone.

We can juxtapose all we want about the wheeling and dealing of the draft picks, that's what teams with depth do, but we can't go out and say "well they got this and that and the other because they traded" when we wouldn't have made the same move. The "bottom line" is value. Is Alex Smith worth 2 2nd round picks in this year and last years' draft? Absofugginlutely. Was AJ Jenkins worth the swap with Baldwin? So far, no doubt about it, yes. Was the addition of Marcus Cooper worth the jostling of the waiver wire last year? Guarangoddamntee it.

I like their Borland Pick, and I like their Hyde pick, however, Hyde's not going to see much action there, they have a zillion backs as is, and Borland is undersized for their defense. Carradine, we will see what happens, but with an ACL issue, you never truly know.

If anybody's been raped so far, its been the niners. (supported by the 'mixed feelings' comment IMO)

Chiefnj2 · 05-12-2014, 02:12 PM

Two second round picks for a franchise QB is a small price to pay. The question is whether he will be extended and whether they are going to build around him. If he is gone after this year it was an atrocious move and Dorsey should be sent packing.

Exoter175 · 05-12-2014, 02:36 PM

I just want to compare a few things.

Colin 243 416 58.4 3,197 7.7 21 8 39 231 91.6 92 524 5.7 4 6 4
Alex 308 508 60.6 3,313 6.5 23 7 39 210 89.1 76 431 5.7 1 7 3
Matt 153 254 60.2 1,807 7.1 11 9 16 85 81.6 18 57 3.2 1 3 1

The niners with a 16 game starter, got 25 TD's, and 12 turnovers out of Colin.
The Chiefs with a 15 game starter, got 24 TD's, and 10 turnovers out of Alex.

Both took 39 sacks, Colins' for 21 more yards, both pretty close on passing yardage despite the 1 game difference. Alex did a lot more dinking and dunking than Colin did, Colin ran a little bit more, surprisingly on the ground they had the same yards per carry which I thought was shocking.

But let me show you the mind blowing statistic

1 Alex Smith 119.7
2 Philip Rivers 116.9
3 Nick Foles 105.0
4 Russell Wilson 101.6
5 Aaron Rodgers 97.8
6 Peyton Manning 94.2
7 Tom Brady 87.7
8 Drew Brees 81.9
9 Cam Newton 79.9
10 Andrew Luck 76.4
11 Colin Kaepernick 74.0
12 Andy Dalton 67.0
13 Anquan Boldin 39.6
13 Tarvaris Jackson 39.6
13 Andy Lee SF 39.6

And yes, I know, it was just one game, but look at how well colin played in his 3 games vs. Alex in 1. Alex in his 1 scored as many TD's than Colin in his three.

Matter of fact, have you guys seen Alex's lifetime post season stats at all?

I think we got the better of their 2 QB options and now they are kicking themselves for what they gave up and how relatively cheap it was compared to the performance.

**penguinz** · 05-12-2014, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

They both suck to be honest, but to say we would have had a losing record with Palmer when he had a winning record playing a harder schedule is just ludicrous.

You are a ****ign moron. Smith doesn't suck. He is not elite but he is far from sucking.

Pasta Little Brioni · 05-12-2014, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Chiefs defense was tied for 5th in total points, Arizona was 6th.

They gave up 35 ppg the 2nd half of the season and had like 4 sacks. Did you watch the games? They were shit.

05-12-2014, 01:08 AM
DTLB58 DT CARD COLLECTOR Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: ManCave Casino cash: $10005837	What The Niners did with the Picks from the AS trade From MMQB http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/12/the-20...with-a-kiss/3/ Now that we see the final product of what the Niners gave away and received in the Alex Smith trade from 14 months ago, we can judge one thing about San Francisco GM Trent Baalke: He is calculating, he is fast, and he knows how to set up his team for the future. The result, first, of the 2013 trade of Smith to Kansas City for a pair of second-round draft picks. The two second-round picks, or their tributaries, were traded a total of five times over the past two drafts, and here’s how it shook out after this year’s draft. Surrendered QB Alex Smith Acquired* DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013) LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013) LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014) RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014) WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder) * Lemonier was acquired in part with a tributary pick stemming from the Smith trade, and Johnson was acquired from Buffalo on Friday for a fourth-round conditional pick in 2015. That’s included here because San Francisco obtained a fourth-round pick in 2015 from Denver for the second-round pick that originally belonged to Kansas City—so the two picks, arguably, will end up canceling each other out. Now the story. In the span of 22 minutes Friday, Baalke consummated three trades. One: He traded the 56th pick in the second round (the second Kansas City second-rounder) to Denver for the 63rdand 171st this year, and the Broncos’ fourth-round pick next year. Two: Baalke traded the 63rd and 171stpicks just acquired from Denver to Miami for the 57th pick in the draft; Baalke got the player he would have picked at 56, Carlos Hyde, at 57 … while adding the fourth-rounder next year that replaced the pick used to get Stevie Johnson. Three: He traded his own second-round pick, 61st overall, to Jacksonville for the 70th and 150th picks. Baalke explained that he and COO Paraag Marathe work the phone and line up prospective trades, and it was hectic because there were a couple of other teams calling in that 22-minute span trying to get one or more of the Niners’ picks at 56 and 61. “That span you talked about was a little bit of a grind,” Baalke said late Saturday night. “A lot of action, a lot of things to consider. Paraag’s the best in the business at lining things up, and then we make the decision. After we made the trade with Denver, I thought we might be able to get Carlos at 61, but then we called [Miami] at 57 and figured we could use what we got from Denver in this year’s draft and keep next year’s pick and move up to make sure we got him. And it allowed us basically to get our four back, which we used to trade for Stevie.” This isn’t a case of San Francisco fleecing Denver. But it is an example of Baalke doing the smart thing, and waiting till a needy team is either on the clock or frothing after a certain player. That was Denver with wide receiver Cody Latimer, who the Broncos project to replace Eric Decker right away. If he works out the way John Elway thinks, surrendering the four next year will be nothing. Time will tell if Baalke made the haul worth it. The five pieces the Smith deal yielded: Carradine will get on the field healthy for the first time as a Niner this month. He missed all of last season with an ACL tear. He’ll be the third man in the 3-4 defensive end rotation with the aging Justin Smith and Ray McDonald, and move inside on some four-lineman snaps. He’s being groomed to start in the 3-4 scheme when Smith or McDonald are gone. Lemonierplayed 284 snaps, mostly subbing for the idle Aldon Smith last year, and will be in the outside-linebacker rotation with Michael Wilhoite and Nick Moody, competing for time. Borlandis an accomplished college player, and produced an amazing 27 turnovers in his Wisconsin career. But he’s only 5-11 ½, and he could be a first-down player only (against the run). “It’ll be interesting to see if his game translates to the NFL,” said defensive coordinator Vic Fangio. However, with NaVorro Bowman expect to be sidelined until at least November rehabbing a sere knee injury, there’s a spot on the Niners’ D at inside ‘backer waiting to be won, and Borland will get a solid crack at it. “I’ve heard people talk about his size, and his short arms,” said Baalke. “But he’s a guy with instincts. All those short did somehow was rack up over 400 tackles in the Big Ten.” Hyde should be able to make the move from the Big 10 to the NFL much easier. He’s the heir to Frank Gore, a 230-pound bruiser with enough moves to be an every-down back. That is, if Gore ever slows down. Johnson is still only 27, but he had a down year last year with the Bills. He’s not the speedster the Niners sought this offseason to help de-pressurize Anquan Boldin and Michael Crabtree, but he should be a good third receiver and an adequate piece to San Francisco’s underachieving receiver group. I asked Baalke about his feelings on the trade now that the chips are known. “Mixed emotions,’’ he said. “I have so much respect for Alex Smith and his family, and great regard for him as a player. He’s the epitome of a good man and teammate and a good player. I know the Kansas City Chiefs staff, and they are thrilled to have him. We’ll see how it works out for us. It’s still early.” Last edited by DTLB58; 05-12-2014 at 01:14 AM.. Reason: Added text
Posts: 7,574

05-12-2014, 01:40 PM	#128
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	I imagine we will be adding a dozen undrafted guys to this list soon.
Posts: 43,200

05-12-2014, 02:10 PM	#131
Exoter175 Banned Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Olathe Casino cash: $10003166	So this is who they got. DL Tank Carradine (second round, 2013) LB Corey Lemonier (third round, 2013) LB Chris Borland (third round, 2014) RB Carlos Hyde (second round, 2014) WR Stevie Johnson (acquired for 2015 fourth-rounder) And we got Alex Smith. Call me the 1%, but I'm happy about our trade. Would those two 2nd rounders have gotten us a pro bowl caliber QB? Nope. Sure we'd have maybe 1 more defensive starter, or maybe another linemen, but is a Starting Free Safety or a Starting Right Guard worth dealing with Matt Cassel again? God no. And to the people thinking we got raped, I'll give you this, the course of transactions between Kansas City and San Fran last year. Them: 2nd round pick 2013 2nd round pick 2014 WR Johnathan Baldwin (Trade) Us: QB Alex Smith (Trade) WR AJ Jenkins (Trade) Marcus Cooper (Waivers) Looks to me like we got 2-3 of this years' starters from 2 trades and a waiver grab, and it only cost us two 2nd rounders. I'd happily give up 2 2nd rounders right now for Alex and Marcus alone. We can juxtapose all we want about the wheeling and dealing of the draft picks, that's what teams with depth do, but we can't go out and say "well they got this and that and the other because they traded" when we wouldn't have made the same move. The "bottom line" is value. Is Alex Smith worth 2 2nd round picks in this year and last years' draft? Absofugginlutely. Was AJ Jenkins worth the swap with Baldwin? So far, no doubt about it, yes. Was the addition of Marcus Cooper worth the jostling of the waiver wire last year? Guarangoddamntee it. I like their Borland Pick, and I like their Hyde pick, however, Hyde's not going to see much action there, they have a zillion backs as is, and Borland is undersized for their defense. Carradine, we will see what happens, but with an ACL issue, you never truly know. If anybody's been raped so far, its been the niners. (supported by the 'mixed feelings' comment IMO)
Posts: 2,327

05-12-2014, 02:12 PM	#132
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $7893688	Two second round picks for a franchise QB is a small price to pay. The question is whether he will be extended and whether they are going to build around him. If he is gone after this year it was an atrocious move and Dorsey should be sent packing. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,381

05-12-2014, 02:36 PM	#133
Exoter175 Banned Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Olathe Casino cash: $10003166	I just want to compare a few things. Colin 243 416 58.4 3,197 7.7 21 8 39 231 91.6 92 524 5.7 4 6 4 Alex 308 508 60.6 3,313 6.5 23 7 39 210 89.1 76 431 5.7 1 7 3 Matt 153 254 60.2 1,807 7.1 11 9 16 85 81.6 18 57 3.2 1 3 1 The niners with a 16 game starter, got 25 TD's, and 12 turnovers out of Colin. The Chiefs with a 15 game starter, got 24 TD's, and 10 turnovers out of Alex. Both took 39 sacks, Colins' for 21 more yards, both pretty close on passing yardage despite the 1 game difference. Alex did a lot more dinking and dunking than Colin did, Colin ran a little bit more, surprisingly on the ground they had the same yards per carry which I thought was shocking. But let me show you the mind blowing statistic 1 Alex Smith 119.7 2 Philip Rivers 116.9 3 Nick Foles 105.0 4 Russell Wilson 101.6 5 Aaron Rodgers 97.8 6 Peyton Manning 94.2 7 Tom Brady 87.7 8 Drew Brees 81.9 9 Cam Newton 79.9 10 Andrew Luck 76.4 11 Colin Kaepernick 74.0 12 Andy Dalton 67.0 13 Anquan Boldin 39.6 13 Tarvaris Jackson 39.6 13 Andy Lee SF 39.6 And yes, I know, it was just one game, but look at how well colin played in his 3 games vs. Alex in 1. Alex in his 1 scored as many TD's than Colin in his three. Matter of fact, have you guys seen Alex's lifetime post season stats at all? I think we got the better of their 2 QB options and now they are kicking themselves for what they gave up and how relatively cheap it was compared to the performance.
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