***Official St. Louis Cardinals 2013 Postseason Thread***

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The Season thread has started crapping out. Post about the Birds here.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Ignorance of the Cardinals hitters? Yes, I have that. Did I not mention that I don't watch much baseball? If not, let me say it again -- I don't watch much baseball. Like none, really. It's a boring sport with long, boring games played during a long, boring season. Wake me when the playoffs start.

By game 5/6, I knew who I needed to be worried about on the Cards based on how they were performing in that series. And I knew that Drew wasn't exactly lighting it up.

And obviously even Bucky F'ing Dent can hit a home run, and every MLB hitter is potentially going to get a hit, but nobody will confuse Drew for Papi, or Freese for Beltran or Molina. After all, there's a reason they're hitting in the 7 or 8 spots.

And yet you can't keep butting your dumb ****ing **** head in here to give an uninformed opinion.

There are good ML hitters and bad ones. Drew has consistently been a good hitter. His approach was not terrible in the playoffs. I doubt the Cardinal pitchers were treating him as an automatic out.

If you weren't afraid when Holliday came up, you seriously don't know what the **** you're watching. Of the four hardest hit balls in that series, three were off his bat. Same with Matt Carpenter. He consistently took excellent ABs and hit into really bad luck. Molina was hitting line drives all over the park, and Craig hit over .400.

They are also excellent MLB hitters over the course of an entire season, and batted ball luck over the course of six games doesn't change that, especially when they were routinely hitting line drives.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Done.

But it seems extremely unlikely.

Miller wouldn't be enough for Profar, but Miller and Martinez might be.

You've always been the first one to dump a shovel full of dirt on Miller's grave, going back to the middle of last year. What is it that you dislike so much about him as a pitcher/player?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I believe this is just a fansite, (I've never heard of it) so consider the source and don't shoot the messenger:

Miller is the odd man out of the rotation, not Lynn? I don't know of a galaxy where that makes sense. If he's a trade chip all on his own, I can see that, but they can't think of Lynn as a better option in the rotation than Shelby.

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Miller is the odd man out of the rotation, not Lynn? I don't know of a galaxy where that makes sense. If he's a trade chip all on his own, I can see that, but they can't think of Lynn as a better option in the rotation than Shelby.

I like Miller more than Lynn and so do other clubs (Rockies). If he brings a bat we need more than Lynn I am okay with that as long as Martinez/Rosenthal are not part of the deal. I don't want Adams packaged either. Give another lesser prospect that won't whiff our rotation. I don't get the aversion to Tulo, add him to this series and our offense looks quite different in that Lester match up.

[whoman69]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Baseball America had the Red Sox farm system rated #1 in 2013.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/major...act-potential/

Like they Yankees, they'll probably trade them for stars.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by VAChief

I like Miller more than Lynn and so do other clubs (Rockies). If he brings a bat we need more than Lynn I am okay with that as long as Martinez/Rosenthal are not part of the deal. I don't want Adams packaged either. Give another lesser prospect that won't whiff our rotation. I don't get the aversion to Tulo, add him to this series and our offense looks quite different in that Lester match up.

Here's the truth of the matter:

Shelby's stuff is arguably better than Michael Wacha's. Wacha's mental makeup is absolutely fantastic, but Shelby's start against the Rockies was the most dominant start of the entire season. Not Wacha's near no-no, not Lincecum or Bailey's no-hitter.

There is no need to package Miller, and I don't understand the reticence to trade Matt Adams. Matt Adams hits lefties at the exact same level as Jon Jay (79 wRC). The last thing this team needs, especially with Taveras and Wong increasingly gaining PT, is a left handed bat that gets crucified against LHP.

Lynn and Adams brings you a lot of players. Honestly, I would think the Cardinals would be overpaying if they gave up both for Profar. Profar was shit this year. He wasn't given a lot of help by Washington, but he was absolutely awful. He was a negative baserunner, negative defender, and a negative hitter. He was almost half a game below replacement level. Pete Kozma was a better baseball player than Profar last year.

It would gall my ass to trade Miller for Profar.

[whoman69]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Miller is the odd man out of the rotation, not Lynn? I don't know of a galaxy where that makes sense. If he's a trade chip all on his own, I can see that, but they can't think of Lynn as a better option in the rotation than Shelby.

Lynn has excellent stuff, but you can almost always count on him losing focus between the 4th and 6th innings. Miller needs to figure out how to win on the road. That split is horrible.

I would have to believe they are keeping Martinez for the bullpen. They have a lot of young arms that aren't ready for eating up innings yet. I have a feeling Miller didn't pitch much in the postseason because he was shut down like Strasburg last year. If you use that as a guide and have Wacha and Martinez in the rotation both capped about 170 innings, you will run out of innings pretty quickly. Kelly hasn't thrown a lot of innings in a season either. You want young strong arms, but you have to keep them fresh and not push them over the edge.

There is a rumor that Miller was held out of postseason because they didn't want a poor postseason to effect his trade value. I view that very suspiciously. If they are wanting to trade for, say a shortstop, it would probably include other prospects as well. Its not like we have a bunch of arms. Westbrooke is gone. Garcia is only a maybe since he has been hurt each of the last two years. Lyons isn't exactly dependable. Gast didn't show much. You also have to make sure you have enough arms in the pen.

Our bench was pretty weak going into the playoffs.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Lynn has a tremendous fastball. Every other offering is a below average pitch. And Shelby's H/R splits are troubling, but he is still a 22 year old.

You make a good point regarding innings, but you certainly can't count on Garcia giving you them. I'm fine with them bringing along Martinez via the Wainwright route, but he's just too damned valuable to be a setup man. His stuff is exquisitely rare.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You've always been the first one to dump a shovel full of dirt on Miller's grave, going back to the middle of last year. What is it that you dislike so much about him as a pitcher/player?

2 pitch pitcher with a mediocre 2nd pitch.

Wacha's a 2-pitch pitcher with a knockout 2nd pitch. Miller, OTOH, goes to his curve as a last resort and just isn't very consistent with it. As a consequence he ends up too fastball heavy and his heater just doesn't have enough movement to it.

It's not that I hate him, it's that he's a pitcher and when you're trying to trade a pitcher for a position player, the pitcher needs to be a 'better' prospect than the position player to me. I don't see that with Miller.

Maybe Miller and Martinez is too much, but a lot of teams see Martinez as a reliever and if that's the case, his trade value isn't amazing either. Miller and Jenkins?

I just don't think the Rangers will trade a guy that was the #1 prospect in baseball 7 months ago who happens to play the thinnest position in baseball right now for a 2-pitch pitcher with a straight, 94 mph fastball. I think Miller's probably a #2 starter someday, but would the Rangers trade Profar if they aren't getting a guy with legit ace upside in return?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Surely the shine is off Profar somewhat. The Rangers are also up against it for their move with Andrus. They sacrificed a lot of leverage in doing that, because it indicates to Profar buyers that they likely view him as less essential than Andrus. Given Martin's play in center, you also have to wonder if they are going to be all that gung-ho towards moving Kinsler elsewhere, even to first, especially since he's been a league average offensive player for the last two years.

Regarding Jenkins, I'd be ecstatic to move him. I think he's a time bomb.

One other thing: I am of the belief that Piscotty will be ML-ready by late '14. I think that needs to be taken into consideration. At the very least, it greatly strengthens the bench. At best, he profiles as a corner OF bat, and the AFL seasoning should help.

[BigRedChief]

Miller doesn't know why he didn't pitch.
Says he is healthy. I watched the guy takes stairs two at a time.

The fans, Miller and everyone else deserves to know WTF is going on.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Surely the shine is off Profar somewhat. The Rangers are also up against it for their move with Andrus. They sacrificed a lot of leverage in doing that, because it indicates to Profar buyers that they likely view him as less essential than Andrus. Given Martin's play in center, you also have to wonder if they are going to be all that gung-ho towards moving Kinsler elsewhere, even to first, especially since he's been a league average offensive player for the last two years.

Regarding Jenkins, I'd be ecstatic to move him. I think he's a time bomb.

One other thing: I am of the belief that Piscotty will be ML-ready by late '14. I think that needs to be taken into consideration. At the very least, it greatly strengthens the bench. At best, he profiles as a corner OF bat, and the AFL seasoning should help.

Lynn, Adams and a AA should get us Profar.

I like Miller. I don't want them ****ing with his head.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Adams and Lee Stoppelman should get Profar. That's a trade that makes both teams better.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Adams and Lee Stoppelman should get Profar. That's a trade that makes both teams better.

Do they even know who Stoppelman is?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Do they even know who Stoppelman is?

I guarantee they do. No Cardinal pitching prospect had a better year.