Salary % spent on Offense Vs. Defense?

nickman · 07-20-2001, 12:22 PM

Has anyone seen a calculation as to what percentage the Chiefs will on salaries of Defensive starters versus Offensive starters versus sub's of the total salary cap? I was just curious what the balance was and had never seen it calculated anywhere.

KCJohnny · 07-20-2001, 01:34 PM

Well, you can begin with the monstrous cap hit Mr. Hunt took by releasing Chester and Hasty.

Then factor in the #1 or #2 draft pick that DIDN'T get selected because the team spent it on Green.

Then look at the FAs signed at/near the league minimum (Cadrez, Allen, Harris, etc...)....

And I'd say that we'll get our money's worth.

KCJ
Gulping hard in hope that the O will be up by 14+ at the half every Sunday...

keg in kc · 07-20-2001, 01:37 PM

Nickman, gimme a few minutes and I'll see what I can come up with.

bishop_74 · 07-20-2001, 01:37 PM

Your crazy! Now that Schotenheimer is gone, our offense will be at LEAST 30% more productive than last year. And that's a fact.

nickman · 07-20-2001, 01:38 PM

Of course we actually have four pretty large percentage splits.
Offensive starters, Defensive starters, all other non starter and special teamers and then the dead money.

KCJohnny · 07-20-2001, 03:07 PM

Gee,
According to Nickman's breakout, there are guys no longer on the team who will be making more $ than the whole STs squad...

keg in kc · 07-20-2001, 03:12 PM

Okay, this is really tough to do before training camp, so I'm basically just going to randomly pick 53 names to reflect how the roster might look in September.

There's not much reason to argue over the backups and special teamers I chose, because they pretty much reflect the cost of any player to fill those roles - the $$$ are more important than the names, and a young inexperienced WR will cost the same as a LB, TE, DT, etc...

(note: this does not include bonus numbers for every player, only the bonuses that I have numbers for)

Offense:

3QB: Trent Green (2.4 mil), Bubby Brister (529K), Todd Collins (800K),
3RB: Priest Holmes (448K), Frank Moreau (298K), Derrick Blaylock (246K)
2FB: Tony Richardson (1.1 mil), George Layne (unsigned,most likely @ 310K)
6WR: Derrick Alexander (500K), Marvin Minnis (370K), Tony Horne (625K), Derrick Mayes (477K), J.J. Moses (209K), Dave Klemic (209K)
3TE: Tony Gonzalez (620K), Mikhael Ricks (500K), Billy Baber (248K)
3OT: John Tait (389K), Victor Riley (527K), Darnell Alford (298K)
3OG: Will Shields (1.7 mil), Marcus Spears (800K), Donald Willis (418K)
2C: Casey Wiegmann (833K), Brian Waters (298K)
PK: Todd Peterson (600K)

Total (26 players): 15.752 million

Defense

5DE: Eric Hicks (425K), Dwayne Clemons (1 mil), Rich Owens (925K), Derrick Ransom (512K), Monty Beisel (unsigned, most likely @310K)
5DT: Dan Williams (500K), John Browning (500K), Steve Martin (500K), Eric Downing (373K), Terdell Sands (undisclosed, probably @210K)
6LB: Donnie Edwards (500K), Marvcus Patton (500K), Lew Bush (500K), Mike Maslowski (389K), Glen Cadrez (500K), Gary Stills (389K)
6CB: Ray Crockett (917K), Eric Warfield (512K), William Bartee (298K), Pat Dennis (298K), Taje Allen (458K)
4S: Jerome Woods (500K), Greg Welsey (298K), Jason Belser (500K), Bracy Walker (560K)
P: Dan Stryzinski (700K)

Total (27 players): 13.074 million
Total (53 players): 28.862 million (55% offense, 45% defense)

Add the dead cap money: 19 million

We get a grand Total of 47.862

That leaves us about 20 million short of the actual salary cap (67.4 mil), and that's probably made up of bonus numbers that just aren't at my disposal, including:

10 players on offense: Frank Moreau, Derrick Alexander, Tony Gonzalez, John Tait, Victor Riley, Darnell Alford, Marcus Spears, Donald Willis, Brian Waters and Todd Peterson.

15 players on defense: Eric Hicks, Derrick Ransom, Dan Williams, John Browning, Steve Martin, Donnie Edwards, Marvcus Patton, Lew Bush, Gary Stills, Eric Warfield, William Bartee, Pat Dennis, Jerome Woods, Greg Wesley and Bracy Walker.

My guess would be that Derrick Alexander, Tony Gonzalez (1st round pick), John Tait (1st round pick) and Victor Riley (1st round pick) all have large bonus numbers, as well as and Dan Williams, Donnie Edwards and Jerome Woods.

So, based upon all that, I'd make a rough educated guess that our salary numbers break down something like this:

Dead Money: 19 million (28%)
Offensive position players: 27 million (40%)
Defensive position players: 21.5 million (32%)

I'll do this again at the end of training camp when the official roster/depth chart is available, so we'll get what should be a more accurate picture.

DanT · 07-20-2001, 04:26 PM

Nice effort there, keg in kc!

Thanks!

KCJohnny · 07-20-2001, 04:41 PM

I think its sad that Chester, Hasty and Grbac will make more money from Mr. Hunt this year than 80% of the Chiefs' starters.

Damned NFLPA...

KCJ
Remembers when players only changed teams when they were waived, cut or traded...

keg in kc · 07-20-2001, 04:54 PM

It's even worse when you realize that they make nearly as much as either the entire offense or the entire defense, depending on which way you want to look at it, with 19 million being nearly a third of our entire salary cap. With even 10 million of that money available our team would look much, much differently this season. We would have been able to make some serious free agent moves instead of having to nickel-and-dime as best as we could. That, however, is why I'm not as down on the offseason as some folks are, I happen to think we really did make the best of a really bad situation where there weren't many options open to us.

That's also why there's reason for hope next year, because losing that 19 million now has netted us more than 7 million to use following the 2001 season. We won't be saying things like "oh my god we're 30 mil over" 8 months from now. ;)

Blame the NFLPA, yes, absolutely, but Carl Peterson, as well as Marty and Gunther to a lesser degree, are also to blame. We should never have been in this situation.

nickman · 07-23-2001, 07:08 AM

Thanks Kyle, I had not been online to see if you had found the numbers. It was about like I was assuming. Do we have dead cap money for next year also? I am assuming we have some but do not know the figure.

A couple of interesting things I see.

1. In that most teams pay little for guards and seem to cut them when they get expensive. Ours are both making more than the starting tackles.

2. I know cornerbacks are paid more at times but 900K for Crockett seems like overkill. Hopefully not another Gray.

Chris

California Injun · 07-23-2001, 08:41 AM

Crockett getting twice as much as Eric Hicks?

Man, I'd be p!ssed off if I was Eric!!! 14 sacks last season BEFORE the Crockett signing? Can DTs season record be safe?

When is his contract up anyways? I shudder to think what Hicks could ask for if he hangs another 14 sacks up in 2001:eek:

keg in kc · 07-23-2001, 12:34 PM

Hicks is signed through 2003, so it's not a worry right now, and I just don't see him as the kind of guy who'd act in that sort of way. He'll keep plugging away and let the benjamins take care of themselves I think. He's a warrior.

Crockett's numbers are actually pretty small for a veteran cornerback; in comparison, Aeneas Williams is guaranteed something like $7.5 million over the next two years in St. Louis, and he's only a year younger than Crockett.

nickman · 07-23-2001, 12:38 PM

Yeah Kyle but Williams played at a pro bowl level and Crockett didn't from what I could tell. I didn't pay a lot of attention to him during the year but I feel Hasty played better.

keg in kc · 07-23-2001, 01:02 PM

That's not the point I'm making, nickman. All I'm saying is that regardless of past/present/future performance, Crockett's contract really isn't very large at all: 500K (vet minimum) with a signing bonus that breaks down into a bit over 400K this year. Williams is getting over twice that in base salary alone this season (2 mil...), plus another million and a half or so in bonus money. 3 (maybe 4) times as much as Crockett, for all intents and purposes.

I feel that Hasty was a better CB as well (although the attitude issue concerned me), but he was due to make over 6 million in 2001 and would not agree to a pay cut/restructure, so he's not really an issue. Don't mistake me for a Crockett fan or supporter - I don't like that signing at all, but he really isn't that expensive, either this year or next (he'll be cut following next season).

We really don't have any overly expensive players on the roster, as far as I can tell; we simply can't afford to with 19 million in dead money (thanks cp...) holding us down.

07-20-2001, 12:22 PM
nickman Content mostly to lurk Join Date: May 2001 Location: Joplin Casino cash: $10004900	Salary % spent on Offense Vs. Defense? Has anyone seen a calculation as to what percentage the Chiefs will on salaries of Defensive starters versus Offensive starters versus sub's of the total salary cap? I was just curious what the balance was and had never seen it calculated anywhere.
Posts: 127

07-20-2001, 01:37 PM	#3
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Nickman, gimme a few minutes and I'll see what I can come up with.
Posts: 58,682

07-20-2001, 01:37 PM	#4
bishop_74 Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Denver, CO. USA Casino cash: $8694993	Your crazy! Now that Schotenheimer is gone, our offense will be at LEAST 30% more productive than last year. And that's a fact.
Posts: 3,642

07-20-2001, 01:38 PM	#5
nickman Content mostly to lurk Join Date: May 2001 Location: Joplin Casino cash: $10004900	Of course we actually have four pretty large percentage splits. Offensive starters, Defensive starters, all other non starter and special teamers and then the dead money. __________________ Nickman
Posts: 127

07-20-2001, 03:07 PM	#6
KCJohnny Blind, deceived homer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Maryland, USA Casino cash: $10004900	Gee, According to Nickman's breakout, there are guys no longer on the team who will be making more $ than the whole STs squad...
Posts: 6,347

07-20-2001, 01:34 PM	#2
KCJohnny Blind, deceived homer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Maryland, USA Casino cash: $10004900	Well, you can begin with the monstrous cap hit Mr. Hunt took by releasing Chester and Hasty. Then factor in the #1 or #2 draft pick that DIDN'T get selected because the team spent it on Green. Then look at the FAs signed at/near the league minimum (Cadrez, Allen, Harris, etc...).... And I'd say that we'll get our money's worth. KCJ Gulping hard in hope that the O will be up by 14+ at the half every Sunday...
Posts: 6,347

07-20-2001, 03:12 PM	#7
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Okay, this is really tough to do before training camp, so I'm basically just going to randomly pick 53 names to reflect how the roster might look in September. There's not much reason to argue over the backups and special teamers I chose, because they pretty much reflect the cost of any player to fill those roles - the $$$ are more important than the names, and a young inexperienced WR will cost the same as a LB, TE, DT, etc... (note: this does not include bonus numbers for every player, only the bonuses that I have numbers for) Offense: 3QB: Trent Green (2.4 mil), Bubby Brister (529K), Todd Collins (800K), 3RB: Priest Holmes (448K), Frank Moreau (298K), Derrick Blaylock (246K) 2FB: Tony Richardson (1.1 mil), George Layne (unsigned,most likely @ 310K) 6WR: Derrick Alexander (500K), Marvin Minnis (370K), Tony Horne (625K), Derrick Mayes (477K), J.J. Moses (209K), Dave Klemic (209K) 3TE: Tony Gonzalez (620K), Mikhael Ricks (500K), Billy Baber (248K) 3OT: John Tait (389K), Victor Riley (527K), Darnell Alford (298K) 3OG: Will Shields (1.7 mil), Marcus Spears (800K), Donald Willis (418K) 2C: Casey Wiegmann (833K), Brian Waters (298K) PK: Todd Peterson (600K) Total (26 players): 15.752 million Defense 5DE: Eric Hicks (425K), Dwayne Clemons (1 mil), Rich Owens (925K), Derrick Ransom (512K), Monty Beisel (unsigned, most likely @310K) 5DT: Dan Williams (500K), John Browning (500K), Steve Martin (500K), Eric Downing (373K), Terdell Sands (undisclosed, probably @210K) 6LB: Donnie Edwards (500K), Marvcus Patton (500K), Lew Bush (500K), Mike Maslowski (389K), Glen Cadrez (500K), Gary Stills (389K) 6CB: Ray Crockett (917K), Eric Warfield (512K), William Bartee (298K), Pat Dennis (298K), Taje Allen (458K) 4S: Jerome Woods (500K), Greg Welsey (298K), Jason Belser (500K), Bracy Walker (560K) P: Dan Stryzinski (700K) Total (27 players): 13.074 million Total (53 players): 28.862 million (55% offense, 45% defense) Add the dead cap money: 19 million We get a grand Total of 47.862 That leaves us about 20 million short of the actual salary cap (67.4 mil), and that's probably made up of bonus numbers that just aren't at my disposal, including: 10 players on offense: Frank Moreau, Derrick Alexander, Tony Gonzalez, John Tait, Victor Riley, Darnell Alford, Marcus Spears, Donald Willis, Brian Waters and Todd Peterson. 15 players on defense: Eric Hicks, Derrick Ransom, Dan Williams, John Browning, Steve Martin, Donnie Edwards, Marvcus Patton, Lew Bush, Gary Stills, Eric Warfield, William Bartee, Pat Dennis, Jerome Woods, Greg Wesley and Bracy Walker. My guess would be that Derrick Alexander, Tony Gonzalez (1st round pick), John Tait (1st round pick) and Victor Riley (1st round pick) all have large bonus numbers, as well as and Dan Williams, Donnie Edwards and Jerome Woods. So, based upon all that, I'd make a rough educated guess that our salary numbers break down something like this: Dead Money: 19 million (28%) Offensive position players: 27 million (40%) Defensive position players: 21.5 million (32%) I'll do this again at the end of training camp when the official roster/depth chart is available, so we'll get what should be a more accurate picture.
Posts: 58,682

07-20-2001, 04:26 PM	#8
DanT Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Davis, CA Casino cash: $4541711	Nice effort there, keg in kc! Thanks!
Posts: 4,224

07-20-2001, 04:41 PM	#9
KCJohnny Blind, deceived homer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Maryland, USA Casino cash: $10004900	I think its sad that Chester, Hasty and Grbac will make more money from Mr. Hunt this year than 80% of the Chiefs' starters. Damned NFLPA... KCJ Remembers when players only changed teams when they were waived, cut or traded...
Posts: 6,347

07-20-2001, 04:54 PM	#10
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	It's even worse when you realize that they make nearly as much as either the entire offense or the entire defense, depending on which way you want to look at it, with 19 million being nearly a third of our entire salary cap. With even 10 million of that money available our team would look much, much differently this season. We would have been able to make some serious free agent moves instead of having to nickel-and-dime as best as we could. That, however, is why I'm not as down on the offseason as some folks are, I happen to think we really did make the best of a really bad situation where there weren't many options open to us. That's also why there's reason for hope next year, because losing that 19 million now has netted us more than 7 million to use following the 2001 season. We won't be saying things like "oh my god we're 30 mil over" 8 months from now. ;) Blame the NFLPA, yes, absolutely, but Carl Peterson, as well as Marty and Gunther to a lesser degree, are also to blame. We should never have been in this situation.
Posts: 58,682

07-23-2001, 07:08 AM	#11
nickman Content mostly to lurk Join Date: May 2001 Location: Joplin Casino cash: $10004900	Thanks Kyle, I had not been online to see if you had found the numbers. It was about like I was assuming. Do we have dead cap money for next year also? I am assuming we have some but do not know the figure. A couple of interesting things I see. 1. In that most teams pay little for guards and seem to cut them when they get expensive. Ours are both making more than the starting tackles. 2. I know cornerbacks are paid more at times but 900K for Crockett seems like overkill. Hopefully not another Gray. Chris __________________ Nickman
Posts: 127

07-23-2001, 08:41 AM	#12
California Injun Bucs 48 Raiders 21 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: San Andreas, CA. USA Casino cash: $10004900	Crockett getting twice as much as Eric Hicks? Man, I'd be p!ssed off if I was Eric!!! 14 sacks last season BEFORE the Crockett signing? Can DTs season record be safe? When is his contract up anyways? I shudder to think what Hicks could ask for if he hangs another 14 sacks up in 2001:eek: __________________ I just made $13,000 on the Chiefs!!! Once they win the Super Bowl I'll be counting my winnings. (13:1 @ Lake Tahoe Horizon Sportsbook).
Posts: 522

07-23-2001, 12:34 PM	#13
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Hicks is signed through 2003, so it's not a worry right now, and I just don't see him as the kind of guy who'd act in that sort of way. He'll keep plugging away and let the benjamins take care of themselves I think. He's a warrior. Crockett's numbers are actually pretty small for a veteran cornerback; in comparison, Aeneas Williams is guaranteed something like $7.5 million over the next two years in St. Louis, and he's only a year younger than Crockett.
Posts: 58,682

07-23-2001, 12:38 PM	#14
nickman Content mostly to lurk Join Date: May 2001 Location: Joplin Casino cash: $10004900	Yeah Kyle but Williams played at a pro bowl level and Crockett didn't from what I could tell. I didn't pay a lot of attention to him during the year but I feel Hasty played better. __________________ Nickman
Posts: 127

07-23-2001, 01:02 PM	#15
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	That's not the point I'm making, nickman. All I'm saying is that regardless of past/present/future performance, Crockett's contract really isn't very large at all: 500K (vet minimum) with a signing bonus that breaks down into a bit over 400K this year. Williams is getting over twice that in base salary alone this season (2 mil...), plus another million and a half or so in bonus money. 3 (maybe 4) times as much as Crockett, for all intents and purposes. I feel that Hasty was a better CB as well (although the attitude issue concerned me), but he was due to make over 6 million in 2001 and would not agree to a pay cut/restructure, so he's not really an issue. Don't mistake me for a Crockett fan or supporter - I don't like that signing at all, but he really isn't that expensive, either this year or next (he'll be cut following next season). We really don't have any overly expensive players on the roster, as far as I can tell; we simply can't afford to with 19 million in dead money (thanks cp...) holding us down. Last edited by keg in kc; 07-23-2001 at 01:05 PM..
Posts: 58,682