Game of Thrones (spoiler-free zone)

[keg in kc]

A few have suggested it, might as well test the waters. The idea is to give people who haven't read the books a safe place to talk about the show.

A few quick ground rules:

• No Spoilers!!!!! for upcoming episodes.
• Larger Song of Ice and Fire discussion should be limited to the other thread although I think a tiny bit of book delving to fill in holes should be okay (example of this would be talking about Catelyn and her treatment of the wolves in the novel, which was alluded to on TV but never really made clear...)
• Everything that happened that week is fair game once an episode airs. So if you don't watch on Sunday night, I'd stay outta here until you do...

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I've been busier than **** and just got around to seeing this. What an episode. Man. I really thought Jamie or Cersi would kill Tywin. That whole scene was spectacular. I didn't catch that Shae was working for Tywin this whole time. Brutal. Awful. And then Tyrian killed her. Awesome.

I don't believe she was. She just betrayed Tyrion partially out of self-preservation/improving her status and also because she believed he chose Sansa over her.

That scene between Jon and Mance was spectacular. Really really good. Really added a lot of depth to Mance's character and cause.

I wish we had seen more of Mance over the last two seasons. Maybe next year (if Stannis doesn't have him killed in the meantime).

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I don't believe she was. She just betrayed Tyrion partially out of self-preservation/improving her status and also because she believed he chose Sansa over her.


I wish we had seen more of Mance over the last two seasons. Maybe next year (if Stannis doesn't have him killed in the meantime).

Yeah, I'm not buying the Shae bit for a second. She showed up right at the time Tywin unexpectedly started to trust him. Which, as we found out when Tywin got to Kings Landing, he didn't trust Tyrian. The my lion bit. His dad knows he'd fall in love with a whore. It's all too coincidental.

Tyrian got played.

Agree on Mance. That dude was Ceasar on Rome and played in Political Animals. I'll give it to him. Dude can act.

[Buehler445]

One thing that did bug me is when Stannis asked Jon What his dad would do, he said he was prisoner and blah blah blah. Mance was a deserter. Ned Stark chops his head off. See the opening scene of the series. It stinks of sloppy writing. But we haven't seen anything sloppy from these guys yet. I'm hoping it's intentional. If it's just a a tool to keep Mance alive, it's lame.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

One thing that did bug me is when Stannis asked Jon What his dad would do, he said he was prisoner and blah blah blah. Mance was a deserter. Ned Stark chops his head off. See the opening scene of the series. It stinks of sloppy writing. But we haven't seen anything sloppy from these guys yet. I'm hoping it's intentional. If it's just a a tool to keep Mance alive, it's lame.

Eh, Mance is essentially a king. Whether he lives or dies in the long run is one thing, but you don't just kill a king on the spot. That's a lot different than some random member of the Night's Watch.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

One thing that did bug me is when Stannis asked Jon What his dad would do, he said he was prisoner and blah blah blah. Mance was a deserter. Ned Stark chops his head off. See the opening scene of the series. It stinks of sloppy writing. But we haven't seen anything sloppy from these guys yet. I'm hoping it's intentional. If it's just a a tool to keep Mance alive, it's lame.

Am pretty sure that was Jon doing Mance a favor for someone he likes and respects, who was merciful to him when he didn't have to be.

No doubt that Ned Stark would have been taking Mance Rayder to the chopping block.

Robb, too.

Hmmm. One of these men is still alive... surely it's just a coincidence that Starks who learn to sometimes place practicality above honor and always doing the right thing live while Starks who don't, die...

[Aries Walker]

I'm wondering how Stannis knew which one was the King of the North. I can only imagine he asked directions from one of the Wildlings his army was currently brutalizing.

"Yeah, he's right over there. The scruffy looking one, unshaven with the shaggy hair. He's the one wearing all fur. Can't miss him."

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

This. And the irony is just too much to pass up. My god. The symmetry of the irony is beyond beautiful.

I've been busier than **** and just got around to seeing this. What an episode. Man. I really thought Jamie or Cersi would kill Tywin. That whole scene was spectacular. I didn't catch that Shae was working for Tywin this whole time. Brutal. Awful. And then Tyrian killed her. Awesome.

I was legitimately sad about the hound. What a brutal way to go (what a fight scene btw!). He was mired in Douchery, but I had come to like him. And Arya killing that fat bastard that said he was going to rape her through the heart, but leaving Sandor to bleed out because he wanted to watch over her (no one left to give him gold for her). Wow. That's really something.

Not real sure what Stannis is going to do now, although when that wildling took a run at him and got absolutely mowed down by a knight at full tilt, I laughed hard. My guess is he gets crunched by the white walkers.

That scene between Jon and Mance was spectacular. Really really good. Really added a lot of depth to Mance's character and cause.

Good catch on the total irony of Dany's situation. She went from freeing slaves and breaking chains, to allowing slaves again (granted, at their own request), and chaining up her dragons. She has discovered that ruling is hard, and moral dilemmas are not always black and white.

The Hound is one I always wonder about. Left for dead is not the same as dead. Maybe he's only mostly dead...mostly dead is still partly alive! GRRM is a Princess Bride fan and already paid homage with the fight scene where the Red Viper channeled Inigo Montoya. Anyway, when I see the Hound's dead body, then I'll believe it.

That fight scene with the Hound and Brienne was totally kick ass though, the sheer brutality of it was great, and Brienne biting his ear off and then screaming like a crazed maniac when she pummeled him off the cliff...loved it!

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Am pretty sure that was Jon doing Mance a favor for someone he likes and respects, who was merciful to him when he didn't have to be.

No doubt that Ned Stark would have been taking Mance Rayder to the chopping block.

Robb, too.

Hmmm. One of these men is still alive... surely it's just a coincidence that Starks who learn to sometimes place practicality above honor and always doing the right thing live while Starks who don't, die...

Agreed.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Aries Walker

I'm wondering how Stannis knew which one was the King of the North. I can only imagine he asked directions from one of the Wildlings his army was currently brutalizing.

"Yeah, he's right over there. The scruffy looking one, unshaven with the shaggy hair. He's the one wearing all fur. Can't miss him."

I believe Mance's tent was at the head of camp. Jon didn't have trouble sifting through the 100,000 to find it. I know he'd been there before, but still 100,000 is 100,000.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Aries Walker

I'm wondering how Stannis knew which one was the King of the North. I can only imagine he asked directions from one of the Wildlings his army was currently brutalizing.

"Yeah, he's right over there. The scruffy looking one, unshaven with the shaggy hair. He's the one wearing all fur. Can't miss him."

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Am pretty sure that was Jon doing Mance a favor for someone he likes and respects, who was merciful to him when he didn't have to be.

No doubt that Ned Stark would have been taking Mance Rayder to the chopping block.

Robb, too.

Hmmm. One of these men is still alive... surely it's just a coincidence that Starks who learn to sometimes place practicality above honor and always doing the right thing live while Starks who don't, die...

Agree. I just hope it's not sloppy writing. That shit irritates me. They get the benefit of the doubt on this case.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Good catch on the total irony of Dany's situation. She went from freeing slaves and breaking chains, to allowing slaves again (granted, at their own request), and chaining up her dragons. She has discovered that ruling is hard, and moral dilemmas are not always black and white.

The Hound is one I always wonder about. Left for dead is not the same as dead. Maybe he's only mostly dead...mostly dead is still partly alive! GRRM is a Princess Bride fan and already paid homage with the fight scene where the Red Viper channeled Inigo Montoya. Anyway, when I see the Hound's dead body, then I'll believe it.

That fight scene with the Hound and Brienne was totally kick ass though, the sheer brutality of it was great, and Brienne biting his ear off and then screaming like a crazed maniac when she pummeled him off the cliff...loved it!

Didn't catch the Princess Bride nod. That's cool. I've become adhered to the hound. He's increasingly becoming a good dude. Especially since he can't get anything for Arya anymore and fought to the death for her. He could have just gave her up. I especially started to like him when he opened up about his brother burning his face off.

[Hawk]

Man, the show (like book 3 does) has gone on a major killing spree the last two seasons. Some great characters...and great actors/actresses no longer on the show:

Catelyn
Robb
Joffrey
Tywin
Lisa Arryn
Oberyn
Ygritte
Shae
Jojen
Lord Commander Mormont
Hound??

Those are some key losses, and I will especially miss Joffrey, Tywin, Oberyn and the Hound on the show, as they were all excellent.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Man, the show (like book 3 does) has gone on a major killing spree the last two seasons. Some great characters...and great actors/actresses no longer on the show:

Catelyn
Robb
Joffrey
Tywin
Lisa Arryn
Oberyn
Ygritte
Shae
Jojen
Lord Commander Mormont
Hound??

Those are some key losses, and I will especially miss Joffrey, Tywin, Oberyn and the Hound on the show, as they were all excellent.

There will be some new characters coming in next season, I hope they are as good as the Red Viper was this season. A handful of Dornish characters will have to be introduced. Prince Doran (Older brother of Oberyn and his sister Elia who was raped and killed by the Mountain), Prince Doran's kids, Prince Doran's main bodyguard, several of the sand snakes (the daughters of Oberyn), etc.

They may also get more into the Iron Islands story with Balon Greyjoy and his brothers that have not been shown yet, Euron and Victarion.

And Arya's and Tyrion's journeys should result in a few added characters as well. It was kind of striking how Tyrion sailed off in the dead of night locked in a box and probably freaking out about killing Shae and his dad, but Arya sailed off in the daylight sitting at the front of the boat excited about her possibilities.

I'm not convinced the Hound is dead. Left for dead ain't dead. But definitely hate the loss of Tywin and Oberyn.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Fried Meat Ball!

I'm not convinced the Hound is dead. Left for dead ain't dead. But definitely hate the loss of Tywin and Oberyn.

Oberyn sucks. He was a hell of a character. But eventually the lannisters had to take a loss somewhere. Jamie lost his hand. Joffrey is dead but that's more addition by subtraction.

But Tywin dying is huge. He was basically running Westeros. Now his psycho daughter and his damaged son are in control of the country? F*******.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Hawk

That fight scene with the Hound and Brienne was totally kick ass though, the sheer brutality of it was great, and Brienne biting his ear off and then screaming like a crazed maniac when she pummeled him off the cliff...loved it!

If you remember it was the same scream/cry that she used when they were dragging her off to be raped when they were caught by Boltons men.