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Old 03-22-2010, 08:51 PM  
ILChief ILChief is offline
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The whole "America hates this bill" thing being good for the GOP

While most polls, show 55-60% disapprove of the HC bill, I haven't seen one that tells WHY people disapprove. I'd say a fair amount (not most but a substantial number) of those that disapprove do so because they prefer a true single payer type system. Now if the GOP thinks those people are gonna vote for them they're out of their minds.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:06 PM   #16
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oh noess.... the people are upset...not
http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Sl...?version=print

Gallup/Usa Today taken on Monday says 49% approve of the bill, 40% disapprove of the bill.
And once upon a time people aproved of the Iraq War. WTF is your point? Once they see what a failure this thing is they won't like it.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:11 PM   #17
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And once upon a time people aproved of the Iraq War. WTF is your point? Once they see what a failure this thing is they won't like it.
My point? Are you paying attention? The Republicans say the vast majority of Americans hate this bill. What they hate is the lies sold to them, not the ideas in the bill.

I think people are going to love this legislation when they find out what is really in it and there are no death panels, your not going to be thrown in jail if you don't get insurance, the government isn't going to ration their health care and evey other lie that Republicans told them.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:12 PM   #18
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I think people are going to love this legislation when they find out what is really in it and there are no death panels, your not going to be thrown in jail if you don't get insurance, the government isn't going to ration their health care and evey other lie that Republicans told them.
What happens if you don't report your taxes?

There might not be rationing of healthcare but the quality might go down and certainly the prices will go up.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:14 PM   #19
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And once upon a time people aproved of the Iraq War. WTF is your point? Once they see what a failure this thing is they won't like it.
The difference being people approved of the Iraq War because of lies.

People approve of this piece of legislation in spite of lies.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:17 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by billay View Post
What happens if you don't report your taxes?
What happens now when you don't pay your taxes? Nothing has changed.
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There might not be rationing of healthcare but the quality might go down and certainly the prices will go up.
Prices are going to go up no matter what. This is all about bending the cost curve, not frezzing prices.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
The difference being people approved of the Iraq War because of lies.

People approve of this piece of legislation in spite of lies.
No this bill is also a lie. You don't just force 30 million more people to by private insurance and not see an increase in price. Centralized economic planning has never worked in the 20th century.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:19 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
What happens now when you don't pay your taxes? Nothing has changed. Prices are going to go up no matter what. This is all about bending the cost curve, not frezzing prices. (if we pay)
Yep, tax liens & jail

The only bending will be by people getting subsidies which we will all pay for in taxes
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:19 PM   #23
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What happens now when you don't pay your taxes? Nothing has changed.
Prices are going to go up no matter what. This is all about bending the cost curve, not frezzing prices.
The fact is you'll be required to report if you pay for heath insurance on your taxes.

Bullshit a better plan could and would actually reduce cost. It's called competition the free market works when we let it.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:22 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
The difference being people approved of the Iraq War because of lies.

People approve of this piece of legislation in spite of lies.
By that logic the CBO report could be considered a lie.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:24 PM   #25
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Yep, tax liens & jail

The only bending will be by people getting subsidies which we will all pay for in taxes
I'm pretty sure they took out jail time out of the bill as a possible consequence.

But I'm not happy about forcing people to buy health insurance. I don't like the idea of the government forcing its citzens to buy something. But I do see the point. Some young dude is making good money but declines health insurance. He wrecks his motorcycle and we the taxpayer get stuck with the hospital bill.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:24 PM   #26
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The difference being people approved of the Iraq War because of lies.

People approve of this piece of legislation in spite of lies.


cough (clearing my throat) people don't approve of this legislation
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:25 PM   #27
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The fact that they aren't allowing reimportation of medicine from Canada tells you alot about whos running the show.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:25 PM   #28
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cough (clearing my throat) people don't approve of this legislation
*ahem* see post #15.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:30 PM   #29
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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No this bill is also a lie. You don't just force 30 million more people to by private insurance and not see an increase in price. Centralized economic planning has never worked in the 20th century.
Yeah, it's almost like

It's completely state owned

Rates weren't escalating at astronomical prices (making ours the highest in the world for 39th ranked care


billay, here's a little tip for you:

1) When insurances companies are privately owned and totally unregulated, they, like any corporation will be about one thing: creating as much profit as possible for their stockholders.

Well, how does one do that? Paring the rolls helps, not covering conditions helps, and jacking up rates helps. Furthermore, passing the buck to the government for the undesirables who then get charged out the ass by hospitals.

No one is claiming that rates are going to go back to 1984 prices. The point is to reduce the rate of change.

Well, explain this to me:

1) If it covers more people
2) If it cuts the budget
3) If it prevents people from being tossed on their ass when they get sick


Why is this the epitome of all that is evil?

You need to get over the thought that there is perfect legislation. It doesn't exist in a democracy (or a Republic). One of the reasons why Plato mentioned democracies are inherently inefficient in the Republic is precisely due to this. Concessions will be made. Flaws will be apparent. But if one applies the hedonistic calculus of Jeremy Benthem (basically greatest good for the greatest number) and it turns out that it has helped more people than it has harmed, then it's beneficial legislation.

I hate to break this to you, but "Government" doesn't equal "Corporation". Government's aren't bound by maximizing profits, and they don't work in the sociopathic way that corporations do. Even if this operates at a loss (comparitively it won't, it saves money), even then it could still be beneficial.

We don't live in an asocial world. This "gotta get mine" mentality is cutting off your nose to spite your face. You are presented the illusion of the possibility of getting yours, all the while those who really have a chance to get it benefit from your vote and your support.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:31 PM   #30
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*ahem* see post #15.
I saw it...a short boost was expected. As Americans learn more about it, the quick boost will evaporate imo. We should see nancy and harry approvals go up soon

Any guesses on how much insurance premiums will go up ?
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