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Old 11-27-2013, 01:09 AM  
Rain Man Rain Man is offline
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Personal Bragging: My 50th Half-Marathon

Last Saturday's race (in 42 degree temps in the rain, I might add) was my 50th half-marathon since I started my hobby in June of 2009.

My vital statistics are:

Completed races in 12 states so far (AK, HI, CA, NV, UT, WY, CO, TX, LA, FL, OH, and WI)

Median pace = 10:15 per mile
Median pace in flat, sea level races =9:37 per mile
Fastest pace = 9:04 per mile (Beaumont, TX - flat and sea level)
Slowest pace = 29:36 per mile (Pike's Peak Ascent - 7,800 foot climb from 6,300 ft to 14,100 ft and I was not good at it.)

14 have been at elevations between sea level and 3,000 feet (Median pace = 9:52)
21 have been at elevations of 3,000 to 6,000 feet (Median pace = 10:06)
9 have been at elevations of 6,000 to 9,000 feet (Median pace = 11:08)
9 have been at elevations of 9,000 feet or higher (Median pace = 15:29)

26 have been more or less flat with total hills < 300 ft (Median pace = 9:50). Three were net downhill.
12 have had moderate hills with total hills of 301-1,000 ft (Median pace = 10:43)
6 have had strong hills with total hills of 1,001-2,500 ft (Median pace = 12:10)
9 have had major hills with total hills of 2,500 ft or more (Median pace = 15:29)

The 9 with major hills are the same 9 that were over 9,000 feet in elevation.

3 races were run in the rain and 1 in snow.

I've only fallen once, and it wasn't in the rain or snow. (Tripped on a trail rock.)

24 were primarily on pavement or asphalt
6 were primarily on dirt roads
20 were primarily on trails

I've gone the wrong way on trails 4 times but only twice did it for more than 30 seconds. The worst mistake added 3/4 of a mile.

I've also had 2 10-mile races and a 10K in there, so that's 53 races in 54 months.

Last edited by Rain Man; 11-27-2013 at 01:17 AM..
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Old 11-29-2013, 12:34 PM   #46
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Okay cool. I’m glad I could provide some assistance for you. I promise you that you will improve no doubt about it.

First off, I wanted to talk to you about training. You are doing the right thing by considering it and trying to enforce yourself to be more disciplined about it. That is for sure.

Since you are a marathon runner, you want to be primarily concerned with endurance training. You need to endurance train because endurance training improves your aerobic systems (i.e., mitochondria) capacity to extract and utilize more oxygen so that you can create more Adenosine Triphosphate (energy molecules) through this particular system. The strongest correlate to endurance is the mitochondrial content in the muscle. Don’t ever forget that. You want that to go up because it also means there will be less lactic acid production.

The key is, you want to rely less and less on anaerobic (meaning making ATP without the presence of oxygen) sources of energy production (i.e., glycolysis) because the by-product of glycolysis is lactic acid. Lactic acid build up is probably the reason why you’re getting slower. It is associated with fatigue. Lactic acid is what makes your muscle cells acidic and as a result you won’t be able to generate as much force over time. The less force there is, the greater the likelihood there will be less velocity or acceleration behind your movements.

So, goal #1 should be to Increase mitochondrial content inside your muscles that way you can extract and utilize more oxygen and produce less lactic acid over time. You can get a VO2max test to get an idea of how aerobically fit you are. I would recommend it. It’s pretty useful. Its usually a sign of how active and effective your mitochondria is at extracting and utilizing oxygen. What I would recommend is that you do a VO2max test before and after getting involved in an endurance training program. That way you could draw comparisons to see where your level of aerobic fitness is at or to see if you’ve improved. The VO2max test will simply assess the volume of oxygen consumed in litres per min by the aerobic system. That improves with training.

Okay, training. Here is the type of training program that I would prescribe or recommend:

4x/wk, 30 min/day, at 50-85% VO2 max. Length of training program should be 6 weeks in total. But, if you could do more by all means do it. Im saying that just so you maintain the benefits that you acquire through training.

To make it easier for you, train at 60-90% of your maximal heart rate. It’s the same as 50-85% of VO2max. If you don’t know your maximal heart rate, it is simple to figure out. 220-age=maximal heart rate. Whatever value you get there, multiply it by the percentages 60, 70, 80, or 90% to get an idea of where your heart rate should be when you train. If you do this, I can assure you that your VO2max will go up, you will increase the number of mitochondria in your muscle, produce less lactic acid over time and not be as fatigued. All of this combined equals better endurance.

Goal #2 should be diet. This is very very important. You want to LOAD up on glucose prior to the event. Our bodies have a limited supply of carbohydrate that unfortunately puts us at a disadvantage. In fact, it is stored in gram quantities in both the liver and the muscle cells. The limiting factor behind performance is lack of availability of carbohydrate. You want that to go up as well. I guarantee you that you will be able to exercise longer with an over supply of carbohydrates. For sure. Having an over supply of carbohydrates will delay the onset of exhaustion and fatigue. The key is, you want to prevent hypoglycemia from occuring in the body. You want to support your body in protecting your blood glucose levels so that they stay pretty constant over time. You don’t want to experience the symptoms of hypoglycemia its brutal (i.e, blurred vision, loss of motor skills, etc such things could hinder performance). The longer the race is, the more glycogen levels deplete and the more a person is at risk if they’re not careful. That is one of the reasons why the most challenging part of a marathon is near the end.

Anyway, here is a diet that I’d recommend:

-For the first day follow a mixed diet. Eat both carbohydrates and fats.

-For the next 3 days eat both fats and proteins, no carbohydrates. Starve yourself of carbohydrates for 3 days.

-For the next 3 days, eat carbohydrates only. Load up on them. This diet is in prep of a week before the event.

This diet supposedly makes your glycogen levels skyrocket beyond normal. So, when you go into the race, you will have an over supply of glycogen and that is a good thing because that means it’ll take you longer to deplete your glycogen levels and you won’t be as susceptible to conditions like hypoglycemia. In this way, you will not be as exhausted and fatigued. I would carry a glucose drink just in case though . It is a good idea because it can also contribute in maintaining your glycogen levels in both the liver and muscle. You do those things and you further support in keeping your blood glucose levels constant over time.

Finally, I could sense that from looking at your profile that you probably reside in an area above sea level. You have a huge advantage of running a marathon because of where you live. There is a saying that goes, “live high and train low.” In other words, live at high altitudes and train at sea level or at least close to it. That’s the idea. This is a very effective tactic to increase your performance and I’ll explain why.
Is it possible that you could find other regions to reside in your state that are at a higher altitudes from where you currently live? I would imagine that altitude does vary in different regions of your state. If you could find other regions within your state that are at higher altitudes, I’d highly recommend that you live there for a month. Generally speaking, that is a specific, appropriate dosage of living at altitude that’s needed to generate a response/adaptation. It is suggested that about 4 weeks of altitude exposure is necessary and you have to live there for at least 22 hours of the day.

Anyway, what happens when you expose yourself to higher altitudes? The atmospheric pressure within the air is less. The less the atmospheric pressure ( i.e., higher altitude), the total amount of oxygen inspired or entering your lungs is also going to be less. That is going to impact the amount of oxygen content within your arteries. Meaning, you will have less oxygen in your arteries and therefore less will be delivered over to the tissues. Your kidneys are sensitive to a lack of oxygen delivery and release a hormone called erythopoetin. This hormone stimulates the differentiation of stem cells within the bone marrow into erythroblasts. The erythroblasts eventually mature and proliferate into red blood cells over time. Basically, when the kidneys release erythropoietin, its going to increase the production/amount of red blood cells in the bone marrow. Your body does this to protect you so that you adapt to the environment and prevent yourself from becoming hypoxemic (lack of oxygen content in the blood).
When you increase the amount of red blood cells in the blood, you increase the amount of hemoglobin as well. Red blood cells contain hemoglobin which is what the oxygen molecules bind to and that is responsible for transporting oxygen over to the tissues. The more of this you have, the better. It means there is more hemoglobin for the oxygen to bind to and you will improve oxygen carrying capacity that way. The more oxygen you carry over, the better the oxygen delivery and the more oxygen your mitochondria has to work with. So that is another way you can improve your aerobic capacity and endurance by increasing your red blood cell count.

*Anyway this is all I have to say. I know this message is long winded and I apologize for that. But, I promise you this is very valuable and useful info. I hope that you consider these tips and if you do they serve you well by helping you win the race. Good luck to you!
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Old 11-29-2013, 03:09 PM   #47
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Some followup questions for you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bricks View Post
So, goal #1 should be to Increase mitochondrial content inside your muscles that way you can extract and utilize more oxygen and produce less lactic acid over time. You can get a VO2max test to get an idea of how aerobically fit you are. I would recommend it.
Where does a person get this type of test done?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bricks View Post
Okay, training. Here is the type of training program that I would prescribe or recommend:

4x/wk, 30 min/day, at 50-85% VO2 max. Length of training program should be 6 weeks in total. But, if you could do more by all means do it. Im saying that just so you maintain the benefits that you acquire through training.

To make it easier for you, train at 60-90% of your maximal heart rate. It’s the same as 50-85% of VO2max. If you don’t know your maximal heart rate, it is simple to figure out. 220-age=maximal heart rate. Whatever value you get there, multiply it by the percentages 60, 70, 80, or 90% to get an idea of where your heart rate should be when you train. If you do this, I can assure you that your VO2max will go up, you will increase the number of mitochondria in your muscle, produce less lactic acid over time and not be as fatigued. All of this combined equals better endurance.
60-90% seems like a pretty broad range. Is that within the context of the three types of training runs I mentioned earlier? 60% for long slow runs and 90% for intervals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bricks View Post
Goal #2 should be diet. ...

Anyway, here is a diet that I’d recommend:

-For the first day follow a mixed diet. Eat both carbohydrates and fats.

-For the next 3 days eat both fats and proteins, no carbohydrates. Starve yourself of carbohydrates for 3 days.

-For the next 3 days, eat carbohydrates only. Load up on them. This diet is in prep of a week before the event.
Is this just for the week before a race? Or is it a normal seven-day cycle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bricks View Post

Is it possible that you could find other regions to reside in your state that are at a higher altitudes from where you currently live? I would imagine that altitude does vary in different regions of your state. If you could find other regions within your state that are at higher altitudes, I’d highly recommend that you live there for a month. Generally speaking, that is a specific, appropriate dosage of living at altitude that’s needed to generate a response/adaptation. It is suggested that about 4 weeks of altitude exposure is necessary and you have to live there for at least 22 hours of the day.
I'm not serious enough about running to do this, but I am envious of the high-altitude people in my mountain races.
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Old 11-29-2013, 04:40 PM   #48
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Good job. Didn't know you were a runner. Did my share of 15K runs but getting too old now.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:12 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
Some followup questions for you:



Where does a person get this type of test done?
Well, I do know that most university institutions do it. Aside from that, not really sure. Now, pending on your age, you may need a physician present. The American College of Sports Medicine recommends physicians to be present for all maximal exercise tests for men that are aged 45 or older. Thing is, VO2 max is a maximal exercise test. So you may need to consult with your doctor on this one if you're interested in doing this test.

Now, I will tell you in advance that VO2 max tests are hard, hard tests because you will be exerting yourself to maximal effort. What they do is they keep increasing the exercise intensity/workload until they see that your mitochondria has maxed out and that there is no further increase as far as oxygen consumption is concerned. I've never done one myself personally but I do know people that have and seen them actually do it. Some people don't prefer them because it is too uncomfortable to do. That is the only consequence of a VO2 max test that I could think of. What they do is they place nose clips on your nose, and they hook you up to a mouthpiece with a tube attached to it that connects to a tank. The volume of expired air is collected and then measured that way.

The benefit of this test is that it is very, very accurate because it directly measures oxygen consumption.

There are alternative ways of knowing your VO2 max but they are estimates and not exactly accurate. You can simply calculate it. I can provide a formula for you:

Take your maximal heart rate. 220-age

Take your resting heart rate. You can simply use a timer and set it at 20 seconds. Whatever value you get once the 20 second timer expires, use that value and multiply it by 3 and that'll give you your resting heart rate.

Divide your maximal heart rate by your resting heart rate and then multiply it by 15. Now what ever value you get here has to be converted to litres. So what you do is, take that value and multiply it by your body mass in kilograms and then divide by 1000. That'll give you an estimate of your VO2 max at a maximal workload. I'll show you an example just to clarify things. I'll use myself as an example:

My maximal heart rate, 220-34=186 beats per minute

My resting heart rate, 72 beats per minute

186/72 x 15=38.75.....This number, is expressed as 38.75ml/kg/min. Thats why you have to convert it to litres because VO2 is usually preferred to be expressed pound for pound. In case you don't know how to convert pounds to kilograms you simply take your weight in pounds and divide by 2.2.

So, what I'd do is this 38.75 x's 95kg=3681.25/1000= 3.6 LO2/min

3.6LO2/min is what I consume when working at a maximal workload. What a lot of people do is +/- 5 with your corresponding value. Give or take. So for me, it would be 3.1LO2/min - 4.1LO2/min thats just a range in which my VO2 max would fall into.

If you choose to rely on this calculation, I will tell you that the only variable in this formula that gets manipulated is your resting heart rate. Endurance training decreases your resting heart rate. So if you happen to notice that your resting heart rate is lower in lets say 6 weeks down the road, great thing to have happen. This means that the ratio of maximum heart rate to resting heart rate will be significantly larger which means larger corresponding value in return. Larger corresponding value equals more oxygen consumed by the mitochondria.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
60-90% seems like a pretty broad range. Is that within the context of the three types of training runs I mentioned earlier? 60% for long slow runs and 90% for intervals?
Yes. That can be applicable to all types of cardiovascular training.
The question that I think is appropriate for you would be, "does the training that you do i.e., long slow runs or intervals fall within the range of 60-90% of your maximal hear rate?" You can get this checked by measuring your pulse right at the end of your exercise bout. Whatever value you get, divide it by your maximal heart rate value and then multiply it by 100 to see if the value corresponds to 60-90% of your maximal heart rate. If it does, then great! Stick with what you're doing. If not, then you may need to up the intensity a notch. I do know that exercise intensity is the most potent exercise parameter in helping a person increase their VO2 max.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
Is this just for the week before a race? Or is it a normal seven-day cycle?
Yes. It is a week just before the race. Not a normal seven day cycle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
I'm not serious enough about running to do this, but I am envious of the high-altitude people in my mountain races.
lol I hear ya. You can do blood doping but that is illegal. I don't know if you guys get tested. If you do, then its probably not a good idea and best to stick with what you got.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:31 PM   #50
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:11 PM   #51
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Thx guys a couple of very good tips.
It ended up being under 20 with snow and wind gusts 15+
I did end up getting some running tights for my legs..layered my top also I had a throw away sweatshirt for the wait at the start.

I had a good run smashing my hopes to stay under 11 minutes a mile and went 8.30 a mile.
800 people ran in it and I seem to do much better the bigger the herd.
That's awesome! If you averaged an 8:30 for 10K, you can do a half marathon fairly comfortably.
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:09 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
Some followup questions for you:

Where does a person get this type of test done?
I got lucky and learned of a local doctor at KU medical center doing a study tied to VO2 max a couple years ago and got it measured for free. And listen to bricks when he says it is very taxing. It didn't necessarily take long, but it was quite difficult.
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:59 PM   #53
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:13 PM   #54
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You can get faster. I am 42 and we have the same PR in the 5K and I have run a 1:37 half.

I have done 2 fulls at a 3:32 and a 3:30. The last one was 3 weeks ago.

I ran a 1:40 on the front of my last full, was averaging 7:45 still at mile 20 then fell apart at mile 23.

My only advice is when you do the full don't set any goals except finishing. It will be much more enjoyable that way.
So I ran Rock the Parkway half marathon here in KC last weekend and improved my PR by a bit. I came in at 01:39:00 even - 07:33 / mile. And I was in day 2 of a cold that I conveniently caught last week. So I think I can improve on that in my upcoming 1/2s. And I should learn today whether I made it into the Chicago Marathon via the lottery.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:00 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by kepp View Post
So I ran Rock the Parkway half marathon here in KC last weekend and improved my PR by a bit. I came in at 01:39:00 even - 07:33 / mile. And I was in day 2 of a cold that I conveniently caught last week. So I think I can improve on that in my upcoming 1/2s. And I should learn today whether I made it into the Chicago Marathon via the lottery.
Excellent job!

I am doing the OKC Half in 2 weeks, I was planning to do the full but pulled a hamstring in Little Rock doing the full 7 weeks ago. I don't think I will PR but I hope to come in around 1:39.

I am planing to do Hospital Hill this year for some reason. and in the middle of June some friends are putting together a team for a 144 mile relay race from Springdale AR to Springfield MO.

I have never done one of those long relay races and it sounds fun, which in itself sounds crazy.

If you get a chance the Joplin Memorial Half Marathon is a great event. Its on May 10th this year.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:21 PM   #56
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:23 PM   #57
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leaving Friday for boston.
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Badass.

That is on my bucket list...don't know if I will ever qualify though.

Good Luck!
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:25 PM   #58
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You guys are way faster than me, but I have to brag that I came in third in my age/gender division in my half-marathon yesterday. It was a smaller race so there were only 7 people in my category, but hey, I beat 4 of the other 6 so I'm happy.

I didn't have a fast time (2:07:58, while my Denver-altitude record is 2:04:20), but it was variously raining, sleeting, and snowing over the whole course, and quite windy. Miles 8 and 9 were on a dirt trail that was all slick mud, and I also made a wrong turn at one point that cost me some time. Without the mud and the wrong turn I would've been probably around 2:05, which I would've been happy with.

Next month I've got a sea-level race in southern California, which will be a change of pace. Three of my last five races have been in rain or snow. I actually kind of like those bad-weather races, though.

I'm at 54 half-marathons now, and added Mississippi to my list of states. I'm thinking of hitting a Nebraska one in June to mark that state off.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:27 PM   #59
seclark seclark is offline
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Badass.

That is on my bucket list...don't know if I will ever qualify though.

Good Luck!
oh hell no...not me! the wife is running it. she's ran 6 since she turned 50 two years ago.

me? hahahahaha. no ****in way.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:33 PM   #60
saphojunkie saphojunkie is offline
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No, I've never done a full one. The longest distance race I've done is a 25K (about 15.6 miles). I've done some longer training runs to test the theory and I don't think I'm serious enough to do one. It starts becoming non-fun after about 15 miles.

However as cdcox mentioned, some of my mountain runs have been similar in terms of total time and effort. I've had 1 race of more than 4 hours and 2 in the 6 hour range just because of the elevation and hills.
Absolutely true.

I mean, I think the longest run I've done that was still fun was 18 miles. Even going up to 20 was just too long.

Fifteen is actually fun, because you get that long endorphin run but you don't torture yourself.

Also, over 15 miles you have to really add back in calories to keep going and every mile you add actually lowers your net benefit from the run.

Half are the way to go. I'm doing a pasadena one this fall and am going to sprinkle in some more over the summer, but last year's LA marathon is the last full one I will ever subject myself to. It's just not worth it, IMHO.
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