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View Poll Results: If "military style" rifles were not available, I think there would be:
Just as many mass shootings 35 85.37%
Less mass shootings 6 14.63%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-16-2018, 08:11 PM  
NinerDoug NinerDoug is offline
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Is the style of weapon a major factor in mass shootings?

How do you account for what appears to be a fairly sharp rise in the number of mass shootings?

I realize that is an overly broad question, with no simple answer, and almost certainly many different causes, many of which we cannot know, which all come together to ultimately create the tragedy.

So I'd like to narrow the question a bit. Let's assume that mental health issues will always be a large, probably the largest, factor. It pretty much goes without saying. But just as obviously, there are many other factors as well. It's not like all or most or even any significant percentage of the mentally ill go out and do mass shootings.

One factor I believe, which appears to be a major factor with this most recent incident, is a deep interest, or obsession, with guns. But how does that come about? And why did mass shootings used to be a rarity, but now they seem to happen all the time?

"Military style" rifles seem to keep popping up in the equation with mass shootings. With crime in general, it is the hand gun that is most common tool of choice. If someone is going to rob a liquor store, you can bet it's going to be hand gun that is involved.

However, with mass shootings, over and over it seems to be some version of a rifle that is intended to look like an assault rifle.

Gun enthusiasts will tell you, correctly, that functionally these weapons are no different from a hunting rifle. Many or most hunting rifles are semi-automatic, no different than (legal) military style rifles.

But if you go back in time, when there were lots of hunting rifles in circulation, but before military style rifles became so popular and readily available, did we have mass shootings as frequently? I don't believe so. And if not, why not? We certainly had just as many mentally ill people, right?

Since this last shooting, I've been putting a lot of thought into this question, and I wonder, admittedly without doing any research, if it is the specific style of the weapon that attracts the lunatics. What do people typically use hunting rifles for? When you think of a hunting rifle, what do you think of associated with it? Hunting animals, of course.

When you think of a "military style" weapon, what do you think of? Hunting? Maybe, but the style of the weapon would be more likely to evoke images of combat. The weapon is clearly designed to look like something that is used in war. If you play a military type video game at the local arcade, you're going to be shooting something that looks like a combat weapon, not a hunting rifle.

If you're a mentally ill individual, what type of gun is going to pique your interest? A hunting rifle, or something that looks like it would be used in combat. And if you become obsessed with weapons like that, what sort of targets are you most likely to imagine? Animals, or people? People more likely, I think.

I just wonder, if weapons like that were not available, would these people doing mass shootings still do them, but just use hunting rifles instead? It's certainly possible. But it's also possible that the mentally ill individual is actually attracted by the military style weapon itself. The idea of taking his AR-15 with which he is so obsessed, and creating his own reality video game massacre, might be the thing that ultimately steers him in that that expression of his mental illness instead of some other, possibly destructive, possibly not destructive or not as destructive, expression.

Opinions?

Poll coming.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:20 PM   #16
NinerDoug NinerDoug is offline
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The Sandy Hook shooter comes to mind. His mother was a prepper,
I believe, and he was raised in that environment. What sort of use is a prepper preparing for? Hunting? I don't know any preppers, but I assume the more dominent idea is defense.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:21 PM   #17
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:22 PM   #18
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:23 PM   #19
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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I'm thinking style wasn't the hook for this last guy.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:29 PM   #20
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Hell, that's more guns than were in possesion of the French circa 1940.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:24 PM   #21
2bikemike 2bikemike is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoopsdoc View Post
No one wants to admit or even address this simple truth. Guns have been a constant in this country since it’s bloody founding, yet these school shootings are a new phenomenon.

The question is why?
This is a great question that nobody wants to answer. How many of us had guns as kids? How many of us had guns at school? Back in the day the majority of homes had guns. We didn't lock them up some were propped behind the door, some were hung in a wooden rack hanging on the wall. There sure weren't many school shootings back then!

So to me the only logical difference comes down to a change in societal behaviors. I don't think its any one thing but an accumulation of things. One thing that I feel is a major contributor is the amount of media vying for our attention. Everything is sensationalized. And I am pretty certain that a lot of these shootings are copy cat in nature.
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:17 AM   #22
Bwana Bwana is offline
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Who knows, maybe shotguns since they do the most damage in up close and group situations?

The one thing that I am rather sure about is that he would have still had an obsession with killing innocent kids in high school, type of gun be damned.
I'm happy none of these crazy bastards have figured that one out yet. An 8 shot capacity 12 gauge loaded with 00 buck would make an AR-15 look like a kids toy. An AK-47 would also do a lot more damage with the same magazine capacity and a larger bullet.
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:18 AM   #23
Eleazar Eleazar is offline
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There have been as many mass shootings with pistols as there have been with “assault rifles”, I would bet, and pistols are probably a better choice in close quarters anyway in terms of the number you can carry, the number of magazines you can carry, how much ammo in general you can carry, and conceal ability. Although the shooters are rarely out of ammo when they die, of course, they usually kill themselves when escape and continuin the killing is no longer possible.

There are plenty of weapons out there that are just as deadly or more deadly than an AR firing .223, but because they don’t look like military rifles, they don’t get the attention. If you look at. Nidal Hassan, he made a frighteningly effective choice of weapon. I think the columbine shooters were using shotguns, which and auto loaded would also be more deadly in these sorts of ranges than a small caliber sporting rifle.

And many other shooters like the VA Tech guy seem to know little about guns, so he choose a Glock 9mm, which is a fine weapon but nothing with exceptional amounts of firepower, and a walther that was a .22. Not a choice a knowledgeable killer would make.against a man sized target.

The mental health part of this is the thing. There’s nothing illegitimate about ARs that should make them restricted. There needs to be real progress made in the states to keep people with mental issues that are associate with homicidal tendency from buying weapons, and we aren’t there yet.

But this is America, where we don’t default to depriving everyone of a right because a couple of people a year take it and do something terrible.
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Old 02-17-2018, 07:29 AM   #24
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So many people keep arguing about the tool instead of the hand wielding it. Most mass shootings are happening in schools, churches, and other "gun-free" zones where a semi-auto pistol is just as lethal and have about the same capacity magazines. People are hung up on inaccurate labels to try and make the tool seem more "evil". Mass killings as defined today have been happening throughout US history. The big difference is 30 years ago you heard about it if it was local but not nationwide. With the advent of 24hr news, the internet and the development of social media over the last 25 years if someone farts in church in Alaska you can hear about it in Miami. Good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns. The only way to slow down bad guys with guns in increasing the number of good guys with guns and enforcing laws already on the books.
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Old 02-17-2018, 08:04 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
I'm happy none of these crazy bastards have figured that one out yet. An 8 shot capacity 12 gauge loaded with 00 buck would make an AR-15 look like a kids toy. An AK-47 would also do a lot more damage with the same magazine capacity and a larger bullet.
Hell dude a AR-10 could go through multiple targets and walls. The gun doesn't matter. I'm surprised more people haven't used an AK tho, cheaper.... won't ever jam, etc

AR-15 just happens to be a very popular platform.

But we should never have these conversation unless you know what AR stands for....
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:10 AM   #26
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:15 AM   #27
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So it's the "military style weapons" that bring out the mass murdering urge in psychopaths?
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:16 AM   #28
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Go look up the Mouse Utopia experiments.
Hey....I was part of that experiment. The endless mazes, the cheese, oh the cheese.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:18 AM   #29
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Hey....I was part of that experiment. The endless mazes, the cheese, oh the cheese.
Is that where you got your name—stumpy, as a mouse? Good choice for a man with a Napoleon Complex.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:36 AM   #30
Eleazar Eleazar is offline
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The Sandy Hook shooter comes to mind. His mother was a prepper,
I believe, and he was raised in that environment. What sort of use is a prepper preparing for? Hunting? I don't know any preppers, but I assume the more dominent idea is defense.
You don't need to read very much about that kid to know he was deeply disturbed. Obviously his mother was foolish not to keep the weapons secure, and she paid for that mistake with her life.

I hadn't heard that she was a 'prepper', only a gun enthusiast, but either way, having weapons for the possibility of self defense nuder normal or disastrous circumstances is a legitimate reason to own them.
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