this is the process...

Chris Meck · 12-03-2007, 01:41 PM

seriously, guys. The Vermeil era left the cupboard empty. Really empty. Like, only LJ and Gonzalez in their prime and nothing on defense other than a surprisingly good Jared Allen.

We were able to do the things we did offensively because of Willie Roaf, Will Shields, and Wiegmann. The two Willies are gone now, and Casey is a shadow of his former self. Green's career basically ended against Cinci. There were no good WR's. No good young OL talent to take over.

Now, I'm not saying that Solari has called the best game in the world, or that Herm hasn't made a lot of questionable game decisions.

I am saying a season like this was inevitable.

In two years, we've gone from a laughing-stock defense to respectable. That took some doing; and really, had to be done. In the meantime, the offense has floundered due to age and injury-but you can't rebuild both sides from scratch simultaneously.

Nonetheless, they've done a decent job of doing exactly that; Bowe certainly looks like the real thing. I think Kolby Smith looks like a great 3rd down back/change of pace runner for a healthy LJ. (anybody see that block he put on Merriman where he upended him?) and I think Croyle looks like a guy that if he gets time, can really toss the rock.

The one thing that didn't get done was the offensive line. and it's been
ofFENsive. I'm of the opinion that we're 2 to 3 guys away (depending on Niswanger-C?) from having a good line again, and a good line will suddenly make this offense look entirely different.

A lot of us said we'd tolerate a 4-12 season if we were REALLY rebuilding. Well, we are. So I'm not too upset right now, actually. I think firing Herm right now and going in another direction is just going to set us back a couple of years again. Herm has his process underway, and to chuck it now means we've suffered for no reason. Switching to a different offensive scheme doesn't make sense because Bowe, Croyle, Gonzo, and Smith all have good skill sets for the Coryell-type offense.

I think we can be back in the play-off hunt next year, I really do, and with some good young skill-position players in place.

Just my opinion. Fix the line and stay the course.

Mr. Arrowhead · 12-03-2007, 01:45 PM

That is my thoughts about this year too. Your sucess and failures begin with the O Line.

tooge · 12-03-2007, 01:48 PM

I totally agree. I wonder though, do you start with the draft for the O line and keep looking for a franchise QB or do you go LT and Guard in the draft and go free agency for QB. I happen to like Croyle, but with his injury history and lack of p;aying time, if they go solely with him and he gets hurt alot, then they have to start over there too. I would like to see a mixture of free agency and the draft next year to concentrate on O line and QB, then use the rest of the draft for CB and Receiver.

Chiefmanwillcatch · 12-03-2007, 02:00 PM

While the drafting has been better it's still not NEngland quality.

chiefscafan · 12-03-2007, 02:01 PM

We need to draft a OT and G then sign the guy from pittsburgh that held out. I wish we could trade LJ but his trade value is next to nothing now.

Warrior5 · 12-03-2007, 02:28 PM

This type of season was inevitable.

You can't fix the entire o-line through the draft; the Chiefs must spend the $ to acquire some FA talent. Also, Law & Surtain are nearing culmination.

Here's a short menu of FAs; there will be some young talent available. Lots of teams will be vying for some of these guys, so we'll get to see how serious the Chiefs are about rebuilding before the draft.

POSN..... NAME..... ..........STATUS...AGE/EX.....HT/WT
T Max Starks (Steelers)......... UFA...25/4....6-8/337
OG Alan Faneca (Steelers)......UFA...30/10...6-5/307
RG/T Jake Scott (Colts)..........UFA...26/4.....6-5/295
LG Ryan Lilja (Colts)..............UFA...26/4.....6-2/290
OT Nat Dorsey (Browns)........UFA...24/4.....6-7/335
OT Trai Essex (Steelers)........RFA...24/3.....6-4/324
OG Chris Kemoeatu (Steelers).RFA...24/3.....6-3/344
RT Jordan Gross (Panthers)....UFA...27/5.....6-4/300
OT Sean Locklear (Seahawks)..UFA...26/4.....6-4/308
OG Floyd Womack (Seahawks)..UFA...29/7....6-4/328
LT Travelle Wharton (Panthers) UFA..26/4....6-4/312

CB Asante Samuel (Pats).........UFA...26/5....5-10/185
CB Ken Hamlin (Cowboys)........UFA...26/5....6-2/209
CB Marcus Trufant (Seahawks).UFA...26/5....5-11/197
CB Drayton Florence (Chargers).UFA...26/5...6-0/195
CB Domonique Foxworth (Donks).RFA...24/3...5-11/180
CB Randall Gay (Pats).............UFA....25/4...5-11/190

Chris Meck · 12-03-2007, 02:13 PM

Well, I think you target Starks and either one of the Indy G's (both are young and skilled). All three have started on a SB winning team. Good players, entering their prime, with rings. Tough to beat that. Indy won't be able to keep both, I don't think, and Starks is definitely leaving Pittsburgh.

I don't care WHAT QB is available in round 1, I wouldn't draft them. You draft a QB in round 1 and you're looking at playing them when, in 2010? What's the point of that?

Brodie's injury history is two ACL's in non-contact situations (repaired, these are often stronger) and one separated shoulder. Now the knee-in-the-back-bruised kidney. I'm really not that worried about it, and I think he's showing the arm, mindset, and leadership skills that you want in a QB. No, I think you have to commit to Brodie because if he's NOT the guy, then you're at least two MORE years away from contending. I think you have to assume he IS the guy and build from there.

IF you can sign Starks and Lilja (both are HUGE upgrades over what we have on the right side now) then you really just need a center; and those aren't really high pick guys all that often.

Just my thoughts; this would be a decent offseason to construct a line that could remain relatively intact for a few years.

Hammock Parties · 12-03-2007, 02:15 PM

I'm not sure we even want Starks. He's not even a starter in Pittsburgh.

Chris Meck · 12-03-2007, 02:17 PM

Oh, by the way, if there's a top flight LT available where we pick (and there very well might be) I'd take him in a heartbeat, and I'd still draft O-linemen whenever they came up on the value board even IF we signed Starks and Lilja.

Bearcat2005 · 12-03-2007, 02:19 PM

My thoughts exactly, I understand everyones frustration but firing a coach in year 2 of his plan is dumb. I think a NFL coach today should at least get 3 years to see where his decisions go.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-03-2007, 02:40 PM

The Chiefs would be morons to go after any of those CBs aside from Randall Gay.

Dayze · 12-03-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The Chiefs would be morons to go after any of those CBs aside from Randall Gay.

I concur, sir.

Also, he has an intangible most do not - the last name "Gay". with a name like that, you'd better be able to play some ball......er wait....play bump and run.....

too many NTTAWWT jokes here.

seriously though..he'd be a good pick up IMO.

kc1977 · 12-03-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

seriously, guys. The Vermeil era left the cupboard empty. Really empty. Like, only LJ and Gonzalez in their prime and nothing on defense other than a surprisingly good Jared Allen.

Yep, hiring a coach whose sole purpose is to prove that he was the mastermind behind the Rams '99 offensive explosion will do that to you.

Talk about a wasted 5 years.

Valiant · 12-03-2007, 04:07 PM

You start next year, with Herm hiring a new OC and then stays hands off.. Kind of what Dungy did in Indy..

As for the draft you draft one of the few best players available regardless of position..(unless there is a player you need that is really close talent wise, ie BPA is a 10, and a OL available that you need is like a 9.2)

Preferably I would like them to change up their OLine to a zone blocking scheme..

As for offense I would like to see a spread WCO, a mixture of what the Pats are doing and traditional WCO... LJ would have to work on his catching a lot more..

WR....WR.................OL,OL,OL,OL,OL,TE,.....................WR
......................................QB
.......................................RB

Would need another WR to replace Kennison, since he will either retire or I would cut him.. I would make a run at Crayton or Bryant Johnson for Kennison's replacement unless we draft another WR in the first two rounds..

With the new O coach and drafting a few more Oline I would still make the push for a few starters.. max Starks, lilja, Jake stock..

On defense I would mainly try and keep getting the front 7 better, because I think a great front 7 can make average CB's look better then they are..

Chris Meck · 12-03-2007, 04:00 PM

I'd take any of those linemen from Starks-Essex. In fact, I'll take two. That includes Faneca, as he's still quite good and would be for probably 2 or 3 years. As long as he's not TOO expensive.

And I'd take one of any of those corners, as long as we don't have to pay them as a #1 shutdown corner/type. None of them are, and that's not what's required in this defense.

12-03-2007, 01:41 PM	Topic Starter
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1964910	this is the process... seriously, guys. The Vermeil era left the cupboard empty. Really empty. Like, only LJ and Gonzalez in their prime and nothing on defense other than a surprisingly good Jared Allen. We were able to do the things we did offensively because of Willie Roaf, Will Shields, and Wiegmann. The two Willies are gone now, and Casey is a shadow of his former self. Green's career basically ended against Cinci. There were no good WR's. No good young OL talent to take over. Now, I'm not saying that Solari has called the best game in the world, or that Herm hasn't made a lot of questionable game decisions. I am saying a season like this was inevitable. In two years, we've gone from a laughing-stock defense to respectable. That took some doing; and really, had to be done. In the meantime, the offense has floundered due to age and injury-but you can't rebuild both sides from scratch simultaneously. Nonetheless, they've done a decent job of doing exactly that; Bowe certainly looks like the real thing. I think Kolby Smith looks like a great 3rd down back/change of pace runner for a healthy LJ. (anybody see that block he put on Merriman where he upended him?) and I think Croyle looks like a guy that if he gets time, can really toss the rock. The one thing that didn't get done was the offensive line. and it's been ofFENsive. I'm of the opinion that we're 2 to 3 guys away (depending on Niswanger-C?) from having a good line again, and a good line will suddenly make this offense look entirely different. A lot of us said we'd tolerate a 4-12 season if we were REALLY rebuilding. Well, we are. So I'm not too upset right now, actually. I think firing Herm right now and going in another direction is just going to set us back a couple of years again. Herm has his process underway, and to chuck it now means we've suffered for no reason. Switching to a different offensive scheme doesn't make sense because Bowe, Croyle, Gonzo, and Smith all have good skill sets for the Coryell-type offense. I think we can be back in the play-off hunt next year, I really do, and with some good young skill-position players in place. Just my opinion. Fix the line and stay the course.
Posts: 17,461

12-03-2007, 01:45 PM	#2
Mr. Arrowhead MVP Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Wichita Casino cash: $10015708	That is my thoughts about this year too. Your sucess and failures begin with the O Line.
Posts: 7,763

12-03-2007, 01:48 PM	#3
tooge MVP Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Liberty, MO Casino cash: $3974112	I totally agree. I wonder though, do you start with the draft for the O line and keep looking for a franchise QB or do you go LT and Guard in the draft and go free agency for QB. I happen to like Croyle, but with his injury history and lack of p;aying time, if they go solely with him and he gets hurt alot, then they have to start over there too. I would like to see a mixture of free agency and the draft next year to concentrate on O line and QB, then use the rest of the draft for CB and Receiver.
Posts: 14,976

12-03-2007, 02:00 PM	#4
Chiefmanwillcatch Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: KC Casino cash: $10004900	While the drafting has been better it's still not NEngland quality.
Posts: 1,145

12-03-2007, 02:01 PM	#5
chiefscafan Veteran Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: manhattan beach, CA Casino cash: $9688215	We need to draft a OT and G then sign the guy from pittsburgh that held out. I wish we could trade LJ but his trade value is next to nothing now.
Posts: 4,425

12-03-2007, 02:28 PM	#6
Warrior5 Stram was Cav Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $9174010	Great thread... This type of season was inevitable. You can't fix the entire o-line through the draft; the Chiefs must spend the $ to acquire some FA talent. Also, Law & Surtain are nearing culmination. Here's a short menu of FAs; there will be some young talent available. Lots of teams will be vying for some of these guys, so we'll get to see how serious the Chiefs are about rebuilding before the draft. POSN..... NAME..... ..........STATUS...AGE/EX.....HT/WT T Max Starks (Steelers)......... UFA...25/4....6-8/337 OG Alan Faneca (Steelers)......UFA...30/10...6-5/307 RG/T Jake Scott (Colts)..........UFA...26/4.....6-5/295 LG Ryan Lilja (Colts)..............UFA...26/4.....6-2/290 OT Nat Dorsey (Browns)........UFA...24/4.....6-7/335 OT Trai Essex (Steelers)........RFA...24/3.....6-4/324 OG Chris Kemoeatu (Steelers).RFA...24/3.....6-3/344 RT Jordan Gross (Panthers)....UFA...27/5.....6-4/300 OT Sean Locklear (Seahawks)..UFA...26/4.....6-4/308 OG Floyd Womack (Seahawks)..UFA...29/7....6-4/328 LT Travelle Wharton (Panthers) UFA..26/4....6-4/312 CB Asante Samuel (Pats).........UFA...26/5....5-10/185 CB Ken Hamlin (Cowboys)........UFA...26/5....6-2/209 CB Marcus Trufant (Seahawks).UFA...26/5....5-11/197 CB Drayton Florence (Chargers).UFA...26/5...6-0/195 CB Domonique Foxworth (Donks).RFA...24/3...5-11/180 CB Randall Gay (Pats).............UFA....25/4...5-11/190 __________________ The best pass defense is attacking the passer.
Posts: 5,232

12-03-2007, 02:13 PM	#7
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1964910	Well, I think you target Starks and either one of the Indy G's (both are young and skilled). All three have started on a SB winning team. Good players, entering their prime, with rings. Tough to beat that. Indy won't be able to keep both, I don't think, and Starks is definitely leaving Pittsburgh. I don't care WHAT QB is available in round 1, I wouldn't draft them. You draft a QB in round 1 and you're looking at playing them when, in 2010? What's the point of that? Brodie's injury history is two ACL's in non-contact situations (repaired, these are often stronger) and one separated shoulder. Now the knee-in-the-back-bruised kidney. I'm really not that worried about it, and I think he's showing the arm, mindset, and leadership skills that you want in a QB. No, I think you have to commit to Brodie because if he's NOT the guy, then you're at least two MORE years away from contending. I think you have to assume he IS the guy and build from there. IF you can sign Starks and Lilja (both are HUGE upgrades over what we have on the right side now) then you really just need a center; and those aren't really high pick guys all that often. Just my thoughts; this would be a decent offseason to construct a line that could remain relatively intact for a few years.
Posts: 17,461

12-03-2007, 02:15 PM	#8
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4740478	I'm not sure we even want Starks. He's not even a starter in Pittsburgh. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 277,685

12-03-2007, 02:17 PM	#9
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1964910	Oh, by the way, if there's a top flight LT available where we pick (and there very well might be) I'd take him in a heartbeat, and I'd still draft O-linemen whenever they came up on the value board even IF we signed Starks and Lilja.
Posts: 17,461

12-03-2007, 02:19 PM	#10
Bearcat2005 Living the dream Join Date: Aug 2003 Casino cash: $9995360	My thoughts exactly, I understand everyones frustration but firing a coach in year 2 of his plan is dumb. I think a NFL coach today should at least get 3 years to see where his decisions go.
Posts: 1,157

12-03-2007, 02:40 PM	#11
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $8009572	The Chiefs would be morons to go after any of those CBs aside from Randall Gay. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,825

12-03-2007, 04:07 PM	#14
Valiant Valiant 'The Thread Killer' Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $6442380	You start next year, with Herm hiring a new OC and then stays hands off.. Kind of what Dungy did in Indy.. As for the draft you draft one of the few best players available regardless of position..(unless there is a player you need that is really close talent wise, ie BPA is a 10, and a OL available that you need is like a 9.2) Preferably I would like them to change up their OLine to a zone blocking scheme.. As for offense I would like to see a spread WCO, a mixture of what the Pats are doing and traditional WCO... LJ would have to work on his catching a lot more.. WR....WR.................OL,OL,OL,OL,OL,TE,.....................WR ......................................QB .......................................RB Would need another WR to replace Kennison, since he will either retire or I would cut him.. I would make a run at Crayton or Bryant Johnson for Kennison's replacement unless we draft another WR in the first two rounds.. With the new O coach and drafting a few more Oline I would still make the push for a few starters.. max Starks, lilja, Jake stock.. On defense I would mainly try and keep getting the front 7 better, because I think a great front 7 can make average CB's look better then they are..
Posts: 18,351

12-03-2007, 04:00 PM	#15
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1964910	I'd take any of those linemen from Starks-Essex. In fact, I'll take two. That includes Faneca, as he's still quite good and would be for probably 2 or 3 years. As long as he's not TOO expensive. And I'd take one of any of those corners, as long as we don't have to pay them as a #1 shutdown corner/type. None of them are, and that's not what's required in this defense.
Posts: 17,461