Joeckel vs. Fisher - Page 3

ChiefRocka · 03-02-2013, 08:14 AM

Assuming we go LT to free up that cap space. In my humble opinion Joeckel anchors better but loses leverage in pass pro above the waist. His feet and awareness are impressive. Fisher plays with much more upper body strength and is a true mauler in the run game. Has a much tougher demeanor and appears to try harder. Now is this because he has to in order to make up for his technical flaws and lack of superior foot speed??

Either way it's 1 and 1a between the two but right now I'm liking Joeckel if we run a true Andy Reid pass happy offense and Fisher if we play off our existing run game strength.

O.city · 08-20-2014, 11:19 AM

No.

Wish, just as I did during the draft, they'd have went with Sheldon Richardson

Wildcat2005 · 08-20-2014, 06:38 PM

Sheldon Richardson
Eric Reid
Cordarelle Patteson

There were some top talents out there

**RealSNR** · 08-20-2014, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

This. I don't get why a lot of fans just expect that there is a Peyton Manning or Elway every year? Just because a player is drafted #1 overall doesn't mean he's going to be an elite player. I saw some say that if Fisher or Joeckel would have come out in 2014 they would have gone around 13th. That's telling.....

That's a horseshit excuse.

There were plenty of good players in that draft. It's Dorsey's job to find the ones that aren't huge fat pussies that suck.

He failed.

OldSchool · 08-20-2014, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat2005

Sheldon Richardson
Eric Reid
Cordarelle Patteson

There were some top talents out there

You would spend the #1 overall pick on:

A DB who wasn't all-world in college and had issues in coverage.

A DL player who had character red flags.

And a raw WR?

Wildcat2005 · 08-20-2014, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

You would spend the #1 overall pick on:

A DB who wasn't all-world in college and had issues in coverage.

A DL player who had character red flags.

And a raw WR?

As opposed to a tackle from the MAC?
No one would be criticizing the Chiefs had the selected any of those above mentioned players

Saccopoo · 08-21-2014, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

That's a horseshit excuse.

There were plenty of good players in that draft. It's Dorsey's job to find the ones that aren't huge fat pussies that suck.

He failed.

I think he tries like all get out to find the best players for what he believes the team should do.

The Chiefs under Dorsey employ a very large scouting staff and they purportedly do some serious leg work on a lot of players. Then they input all that into advanced computer generated metrics that account for a veritable shit ton of stuff. (Chiefs are only NFL team using the Decision Lens system currently if I remember correctly.)

That's a combination of old school football accumen and modern analytics that is, at it's very minimum, impressive in it's scope and breadth.

However, his last two drafts have been what one could term "head scratchers" from a personnel perspective, especially the 2014 draft.

One could argue that the Fisher pick was based more on need than BPA, but there seemed to be a general consensus that he was a top three/five type of player in that draft. I do feel that he'll end up being a solid pro, barring injury, and he was progressing as the 2013 season wore on.

I believe that the standard mantra of "give him three years" should apply to Dorsey. His methodology is definitely different than the standard NFL GM and we'll see how it plays out. In fact, I'm happy to give him a five year window simply based on the Peterson/Herm + Pioli tenures. At least there is an improvement in culture and attitude at 1 Arrowhead Drive.

**Mav** · 08-21-2014, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat2005

Sheldon Richardson
Eric Reid
Cordarelle Patteson

There were some top talents out there

You could put Dee Milliner up there as well.

**The Franchise** · 08-21-2014, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I think he tries like all get out to find the best players for what he believes the team should do.

The Chiefs under Dorsey employ a very large scouting staff and they purportedly do some serious leg work on a lot of players. Then they input all that into advanced computer generated metrics that account for a veritable shit ton of stuff. (Chiefs are only NFL team using the Decision Lens system currently if I remember correctly.)

That's a combination of old school football accumen and modern analytics that is, at it's very minimum, impressive in it's scope and breadth.

However, his last two drafts have been what one could term "head scratchers" from a personnel perspective, especially the 2014 draft.

One could argue that the Fisher pick was based more on need than BPA, but there seemed to be a general consensus that he was a top three/five type of player in that draft. I do feel that he'll end up being a solid pro, barring injury, and he was progressing as the 2013 season wore on.

I believe that the standard mantra of "give him three years" should apply to Dorsey. His methodology is definitely different than the standard NFL GM and we'll see how it plays out. In fact, I'm happy to give him a five year window simply based on the Peterson/Herm + Pioli tenures. At least there is an improvement in culture and attitude at 1 Arrowhead Drive.

Packers use it as well.

John Dope · 08-23-2014, 07:07 AM

I wish had gone with Star Lotulelei. Maybe they would have if he hadn't had the false red flag on the heart? Can you imagine Dontari and Star up there?

OldSchool · 08-23-2014, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Dope

I wish had gone with Star Lotulelei. Maybe they would have if he hadn't had the false red flag on the heart? Can you imagine Dontari and Star up there?

If we stayed put in 2011, we could have drafted Cameron Jordan instead of Jonathan Baldwin.

Star Lotulelei - Dontari Poe - Cameron Jordan

We would actually be a top 5 defense if we had that even with our shitty secondary.

O.city · 08-23-2014, 10:34 AM

Star is essentially Poe though, so thats a bit redundant.

However,

Sheldon Richardson, Poe, Jordan would be solid.

OldSchool · 08-23-2014, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Star is essentially Poe though, so thats a bit redundant.

However,

Sheldon Richardson, Poe, Jordan would be solid.

Hell, if we could switch it to a hybrid defense.

Hali - Star - Poe - Jordan

And have Houston coming off on blitzes, etc, like Von Miller from the OLB position. Drop DJ and everyone else into coverage, those 5 up front alone should be enough to slow down most rushing attacks with DJ spying. Poe next to Star would absolutely crush the interior of any OL.

KC Hawks · 08-23-2014, 05:50 PM

If we had stayed put and drafted Cameron Jordan, we wouldn't have had the pick that got us Houston.

jd1020 · 08-23-2014, 10:17 PM

If the Chiefs would have picked a WR to compliment Bowe instead of potentially replace Bowe, they could have had Torrey Smith AND Justin Houston.

John Dope · 08-26-2014, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

If we stayed put in 2011, we could have drafted Cameron Jordan instead of Jonathan Baldwin.

Star Lotulelei - Dontari Poe - Cameron Jordan

We would actually be a top 5 defense if we had that even with our shitty secondary.

That would have been awesome.

03-02-2013, 08:14 AM
ChiefRocka Veteran Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: DE Casino cash: $9785019	Joeckel vs. Fisher Assuming we go LT to free up that cap space. In my humble opinion Joeckel anchors better but loses leverage in pass pro above the waist. His feet and awareness are impressive. Fisher plays with much more upper body strength and is a true mauler in the run game. Has a much tougher demeanor and appears to try harder. Now is this because he has to in order to make up for his technical flaws and lack of superior foot speed?? Either way it's 1 and 1a between the two but right now I'm liking Joeckel if we run a true Andy Reid pass happy offense and Fisher if we play off our existing run game strength.
Posts: 3,805

08-20-2014, 11:19 AM	#31
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2774064	No. Wish, just as I did during the draft, they'd have went with Sheldon Richardson
Posts: 81,210

08-20-2014, 06:38 PM	#32
Wildcat2005 Starter Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $10005555	Sheldon Richardson Eric Reid Cordarelle Patteson There were some top talents out there
Posts: 391

08-23-2014, 07:07 AM	#39
John Dope Banned Join Date: Jul 2014 Casino cash: $10009960	I wish had gone with Star Lotulelei. Maybe they would have if he hadn't had the false red flag on the heart? Can you imagine Dontari and Star up there?
Posts: 1,180

08-23-2014, 10:34 AM	#41
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2774064	Star is essentially Poe though, so thats a bit redundant. However, Sheldon Richardson, Poe, Jordan would be solid.
Posts: 81,210

08-23-2014, 05:50 PM	#43
KC Hawks Veteran Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: The West Side Casino cash: $1534310	If we had stayed put and drafted Cameron Jordan, we wouldn't have had the pick that got us Houston.
Posts: 2,808

08-23-2014, 10:17 PM	#44
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7742645	If the Chiefs would have picked a WR to compliment Bowe instead of potentially replace Bowe, they could have had Torrey Smith AND Justin Houston.
Posts: 24,322