Chiefs Tony: It would be a disgrace if Tyler is not QB next year - Page 4

Zouk · 12-07-2008, 11:02 PM

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation...B-in-2009.html

Gonzalez: A 'disgrace' if Thigpen isn't QB in 2009

December 7, 2008 11:14 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson

DENVER -- Tony Gonzalez is not sure if he will want to return to the Kansas City Chiefs in 2009. But Sunday, he made one thing abundantly clear.

If he does return to Kansas City for a 13th season, it had better be a package deal with Tyler Thigpen. The star tight end emphatically put his support behind the Chiefs' gutsy, young quarterback Sunday after another close call in Denver, where the Broncos moved to the doorstep of the AFC West championship with a 24-17 win over the feisty Chiefs.

In a candid interview, Gonzalez left no doubt about what he thinks the Chiefs' brass needs to do at quarterback in the offseason: Make Thigpen the long-term answer.

"It would be a disgrace if they don't," Gonzalez said. "We've been playing well since he came in."

The quarterback situation has and will be the biggest topic of discussion as the 2-11 Chiefs stumble toward 2009. The Chiefs have many needs -- Gonzalez said he believes the team is foru to five players away from being a legitimate playoff contender -- starting with the front seven on defense. There has been much speculation the Chiefs, who will very likely have a top-five pick in the draft, will pursue a quarterback through the draft, a trade or free agency.

Gonzalez has advice for the team, if they're listening or not.

"You already got your quarterback," Gonzalez said. "You get something else to help us."

With Gonzalez, who owns every significant receiving record in the NFL by a tight end, firmly behind Thigpen, does that mean he wants to return to Kansas City? Back in October Gonzalez asked the team to trade him and he was upset when a trade didn't happen by the deadline. Back then, the 32-year-old Gonzalez said he would evaluate whether he wants to return after the season.

He maintained that stance Sunday.

"I don't know what I will want to do in two months," he said. However, Gonzalez did say he can see himself finishing his career in Kansas City with Thigpen as the quarterback. Thigpen had already left the locker room when Gonzalez made his comments.

"We're close on offense, we're close," Gonzalez said. "I think they are going to get some pieces on defense so the defense can catch up with us, but we're close. Right now, I'm a Kansas City Chief and I know we're close."

Gonzalez did say he feels better about being a Chief than he did in October, "but we're still losing." Gonzalez talked Sunday as he did prior to the trade talk. He said his window is closing and he doesn't have a lot of time remaining in his career. He wants to win now.
He is very happy Kansas City has been competitive in the past several weeks. He said the team is only one or two plays away from winning games. But he expressed the losing "hurts" him.

Still, Gonzalez kept going back to Thigpen. He said the Chiefs became competitive when Thigpen took over Oct. 26 against the New York Jets. Kansas City blew three straight games during a stretch in October and in November, and the Chiefs still are not winning. Yet, Gonzalez did say he can see the Chiefs quickly turning around their fortunes next season.

"I could see this being a playoff team next year," Gonzalez said. "I could see us turning it around."

Whether he will be a part of it is yet to be seen, but it is clear Gonzalez wants Thigpen to be part of it. Thigpen, 24, has thrown for 1,926 yards and 14 touchdowns. Gonzalez said he sees weekly improvement from Thigpen.

The two have become close on and off the field. The future hall of famer has mentored Thigpen and the two, along with other offensive teammates, watch film together on Fridays. It clearly has paid off. Gonzalez had five catches for 73 yards Sunday, including a 13-yard touchdown catch. Gonzalez has 57 of his 78 catches this season in the eight games since the trade deadline. It is clear that he has stayed focused during the tough time and it is clear Thigpen has re-energized him.

"Maybe I like him because he throws to me," Gonzalez joked. "He's a good kid, he's humble. He listens. He's not like a lot of young players today who thinks they are the best. He wants to get to better and he will."

Here are some other elements from Denver's win, where the Broncos cut their magic number in the AFC West to one game. A Denver win or a loss or tie by San Diego in the final three weeks gives the Broncos the title.

Denver's running game takes a hit: Denver rookie running back Peyton Hillis suffered a hamstring injury late in the second quarter and did not return. Hillis has flourished since becoming Denver's lead tailback a month ago. Hillis, a rookie fullback, got the job after three Denver running backs were lost for the season with injuries.

The only healthy Broncos tailback after Hillis was hurt Sunday was Tatum Bell, who signed three weeks ago. Bell did have a key 28-yard run in the second half as the Broncos finished off a win in which they had to score 17 unanswered points.

The Broncos will need Hillis down the stretch to keep balance to the offense. He had 58 yards, including an 18-yard touchdown run, on eight carries before his injury. Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said the injury Hillis suffered often costs a player a month. However the team's trainer said through the PR staff that is premature. Hillis said after the game that he doesn't think the injury is overly serious.

Marshall has a big game: Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall hadn't caught more than six passes in a game for the past six games. However, he broke out big time Sunday, catching 11 passes for 91 yards. He had two touchdowns and he made a huge catch on third down on the final drive as Denver ran out the clock.

Marshall has 83 catches for 1,033 yards. With Denver probably heading for the postseason, Marshall will be a key, especially if Hillis is out for a while. Marshall has been dealing with leg ailments, and quarterback Jay Cutler said his performance Sunday was significant.

"That was big for him," said Cutler, who completed 32 of 40 pass attempts for 286 yards.

Denver shows some consistency: The Broncos have now won four of their past five games and ended a three-game losing streak at home.

While it wasn't an easy win, it was important because the Broncos showed some consistency. Denver has had trouble beating lesser opponents this season while it has played up to its competition. A perfect example was the previous two weeks, when Oakland won 31-10 in Denver and then the Broncos cooled off the Jets, 34-17, on the road last week.

"I think we're clicking at the right time," Denver cornerback Dre' Bly said. "We're fighting our inconsistencies."

**DeezNutz** · 12-07-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchiefsus

That doesn't matter. Cutler makes just as many stupid passes as just about any quarterback in the NFL yet he gets a pass for the most part. Hell, besides the one INT he actually did throw there was the one that hit DJ in the hands but was dropped and there was at least 1 or 2 other close calls.

Of course it matters. Would you rather have Cutler or Thigpen. Which has more upside?

chiefzilla1501 · 12-07-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Do Cutler and Thigpen have the same ceiling?

Cutler has a higher ceiling, but I think that what makes Thigpen most intriguing is his ability to move. It's rare to find a passer that moves as well as he does that is looking to pass first. He leads the NFL in rushing yards from a QB, but I think most of us would all agree that we never get the impression that he runs unless he absolutely has to.

If Thigpen can continue to improve as a passer, that double threat is going to make him really dangerous. While Cutler is a better pure passer, that's an element to his game that he'll never have.

Ultra Peanut · 12-07-2008, 11:54 PM

He can say this now, because there's no chance we get Stafford.

Orakpo's coo.

**DeezNutz** · 12-07-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Pretty distinct difference. The national media knew that Bannister was ready to bust at any point. More importantly, you can't compare football to baseball. There is a long line of baseball players who bust within a half season because there is so much detail that goes into every single decision you make, especially when you pitch. Batters know exactly what the fastball will do, how it will look coming out of your hand, and when you're going to throw it.

That's a lot different from a QB in the NFL. Yes, a QB might give away some tricks if he stares down receiver or has a tendency to favor one receiver over the other in certain situations, but there isn't nearly as much that can be schemed for. In general, the coaches are the ones who make sure the scheme is unpredictable and the players' job is to execute.

Pitchers are much, much easier to adjust for than quarterbacks.

Statistically speaking, Bannister had the perfect season. Based on numbers alone, he shouldn't have been as successful as he was. The national media didn't know jack shit.

To say that the adjustments are easier in one sport as compared to the next, this is an impossible argument to prove, and, frankly, is one that I'm not interested in.

Again, my point is that Thigpen's raw numbers are more impressive than his actual play. I expect the latter to decrease significantly over a 16 game season.

The kid has been fun to watch, no doubt. But what he's done wouldn't stop me from taking a shot on a QB whom I believe could have far more upside.

**DeezNutz** · 12-07-2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Cutler has a higher ceiling, but I think that what makes Thigpen most intriguing is his ability to move. It's rare to find a passer that moves as well as he does that is looking to pass first. He leads the NFL in rushing yards from a QB, but I think most of us would all agree that we never get the impression that he runs unless he absolutely has to.

If Thigpen can continue to improve as a passer, that double threat is going to make him really dangerous. While Cutler is a better pure passer, that's an element to his game that he'll never have.

Now, I agree with this. Thigpen's optimal potential might be Gannon. This would be great. I wouldn't spit at this.

I'd still rather have a Manning or a Marino or an Elway or a Favre (not now, obviously) or a...

Silock · 12-08-2008, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Appeal to authority is a classical logical fallacy.

Not necessarily. It's certainly not the end-all, be-all of logical arguments, but there are merits in deferring to experts.

**luv** · 12-08-2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Now, I agree with this. Thigpen's optimal potential might be Gannon. This would be great. I wouldn't spit at this.

I'd still rather have a Manning or a Marino or an Elway or a Favre (not now, obviously) or a...

....Matt Ryan? I'd love to get lucky like that, too. But that's not a likely scenario. Eli Manning is an average QB with good receivers who won a Super Bowl. Actually, I think he's done better since winning the Super Bowl. I would be happy with someone like that as well.

Silock · 12-08-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

He threw two or three today. Good grief. One was reversed via replay.

Last week he perfected the back-foot-rainbow-hope-like-hell-Tony-makes-a-play throw.

I think it's unfair to assume that he won't be making improvements in those areas if he keeps getting snaps. He IS a first-year starter. These things happen. What I do know is that this is the best the KC offense has looked since AS was in charge. At least we're moving the ball and actually threatening opposing defenses.

**Tribal Warfare** · 12-08-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Now, I agree with this. Thigpen's optimal potential might be Gannon. This would be great. I wouldn't spit at this.

I'd still rather have a Manning or a Marino or an Elway or a Favre (not now, obviously) or a...

Again, as mentioned earlier alot of shit can happen from here to the draft, hell Stafford might be their when we pick or he could pull an Elway/Eli Manning and wants to play for KC .Apparently he has connections to the Hunts from what I hear from the die hard Georgia Bulldogs fans on the BB.

**cdcox** · 12-08-2008, 12:07 AM

I guess I just don't see what everyone is excited about. He is a serviceable QB when you run an offense that doesn't ask him to do too much. He is accuracy is good at short distances, but he's pretty erratic over 20 yards.

What will he look like when Tony retires?

What is his outstanding attribute that he will build his career on? Arm strength? Accuracy? Tough to bring down? Touch on the deep ball? Pocket presence? Study of the game? Leadership? Most young QBs that develop into franchise guys have something special that you can see from day one. Can anyone tell me what that something is for Thigpen?

Do you envision a time in his career when he trots onto the field down by 3 with 3 minutes left in the game and the other team just dreads what they know is to follow? I don't get that vibe at all.

I hope he goes to the Hall of Fame. But I just don't see the potential for that.

Stinger · 12-08-2008, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Of course it matters. Would you rather have Cutler or Thigpen. Which has more upside?

Are we talking Culter after his first few starts in 2006 or the Cutler now. Big difference IMO.

Cutler 2006

Games -- Att -- Comp -- % -- Yards -- TDs -- Int -- QB Rating

5 -- 137 -- 81 -- 59.1 -- 1,001 -- 9 -- 6 -- 88.5

Tyler Thigpen

8 -- 315 -- 172 -- 54.6 -- 1,926 -- 14 -- 8 -- 77.3

**DeezNutz** · 12-08-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

I guess I just don't see what everyone is excited about. He is a serviceable QB when you run an offense that doesn't ask him to do too much. He is accuracy is good at short distances, but he's pretty erratic over 20 yards.

What will he look like when Tony retires?

What is his outstanding attribute that he will build his career on? Arm strength? Accuracy? Tough to bring down? Touch on the deep ball? Pocket presence? Study of the game? Leadership? Most young QBs that develop into franchise guys have something special that you can see from day one. Can anyone tell me what that something is for Thigpen?

Do you envision a time in his career when he trots onto the field down by 3 with 3 minutes left in the game and the other team just dreads what they know is to follow? I don't get that vibe at all.

I hope he goes to the Hall of Fame. But I just don't see the potential for that.

The one outstanding attribute to many posters is that he's currently a Chief, and we're circling the wagons, pilgrim.

**cdcox** · 12-08-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Thigpen's optimal potential might be Gannon. This would be great. I wouldn't spit at this.

That would suck. I would spit on that.

**DeezNutz** · 12-08-2008, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger

Are we talking Culter after his first few starts in 2006 or the Cutler now. Big difference IMO.

Cutler 2006

Games -- Att -- Comp -- % -- Yards -- TDs -- Int -- QB Rating

5 -- 137 -- 81 -- 59.1 -- 1,001 -- 9 -- 6 -- 88.5

Tyler Thigpen

8 -- 315 -- 172 -- 54.6 -- 1,926 -- 14 -- 8 -- 77.3

I'll defer to cdcox's nicely articulated post to answer this. I'd be shocked if anyone would have the slightest inkling to prefer Thigpen to Cutler, at any stage in their development.

As others have stated, I'd love to be wrong. Hope I am, in fact.

**DeezNutz** · 12-08-2008, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

That would suck. I would spit on that.

You don't like league MVP's? Though not necessarily all HOF's, you believe these players suck the manhood?

12-07-2008, 11:02 PM
Zouk Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: DC Casino cash: $10004900	Tony: It would be a disgrace if Tyler is not QB next year http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation...B-in-2009.html Gonzalez: A 'disgrace' if Thigpen isn't QB in 2009 December 7, 2008 11:14 PM Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson DENVER -- Tony Gonzalez is not sure if he will want to return to the Kansas City Chiefs in 2009. But Sunday, he made one thing abundantly clear. If he does return to Kansas City for a 13th season, it had better be a package deal with Tyler Thigpen. The star tight end emphatically put his support behind the Chiefs' gutsy, young quarterback Sunday after another close call in Denver, where the Broncos moved to the doorstep of the AFC West championship with a 24-17 win over the feisty Chiefs. In a candid interview, Gonzalez left no doubt about what he thinks the Chiefs' brass needs to do at quarterback in the offseason: Make Thigpen the long-term answer. "It would be a disgrace if they don't," Gonzalez said. "We've been playing well since he came in." The quarterback situation has and will be the biggest topic of discussion as the 2-11 Chiefs stumble toward 2009. The Chiefs have many needs -- Gonzalez said he believes the team is foru to five players away from being a legitimate playoff contender -- starting with the front seven on defense. There has been much speculation the Chiefs, who will very likely have a top-five pick in the draft, will pursue a quarterback through the draft, a trade or free agency. Gonzalez has advice for the team, if they're listening or not. "You already got your quarterback," Gonzalez said. "You get something else to help us." With Gonzalez, who owns every significant receiving record in the NFL by a tight end, firmly behind Thigpen, does that mean he wants to return to Kansas City? Back in October Gonzalez asked the team to trade him and he was upset when a trade didn't happen by the deadline. Back then, the 32-year-old Gonzalez said he would evaluate whether he wants to return after the season. He maintained that stance Sunday. "I don't know what I will want to do in two months," he said. However, Gonzalez did say he can see himself finishing his career in Kansas City with Thigpen as the quarterback. Thigpen had already left the locker room when Gonzalez made his comments. "We're close on offense, we're close," Gonzalez said. "I think they are going to get some pieces on defense so the defense can catch up with us, but we're close. Right now, I'm a Kansas City Chief and I know we're close." Gonzalez did say he feels better about being a Chief than he did in October, "but we're still losing." Gonzalez talked Sunday as he did prior to the trade talk. He said his window is closing and he doesn't have a lot of time remaining in his career. He wants to win now. He is very happy Kansas City has been competitive in the past several weeks. He said the team is only one or two plays away from winning games. But he expressed the losing "hurts" him. Still, Gonzalez kept going back to Thigpen. He said the Chiefs became competitive when Thigpen took over Oct. 26 against the New York Jets. Kansas City blew three straight games during a stretch in October and in November, and the Chiefs still are not winning. Yet, Gonzalez did say he can see the Chiefs quickly turning around their fortunes next season. "I could see this being a playoff team next year," Gonzalez said. "I could see us turning it around." Whether he will be a part of it is yet to be seen, but it is clear Gonzalez wants Thigpen to be part of it. Thigpen, 24, has thrown for 1,926 yards and 14 touchdowns. Gonzalez said he sees weekly improvement from Thigpen. The two have become close on and off the field. The future hall of famer has mentored Thigpen and the two, along with other offensive teammates, watch film together on Fridays. It clearly has paid off. Gonzalez had five catches for 73 yards Sunday, including a 13-yard touchdown catch. Gonzalez has 57 of his 78 catches this season in the eight games since the trade deadline. It is clear that he has stayed focused during the tough time and it is clear Thigpen has re-energized him. "Maybe I like him because he throws to me," Gonzalez joked. "He's a good kid, he's humble. He listens. He's not like a lot of young players today who thinks they are the best. He wants to get to better and he will." Here are some other elements from Denver's win, where the Broncos cut their magic number in the AFC West to one game. A Denver win or a loss or tie by San Diego in the final three weeks gives the Broncos the title. Denver's running game takes a hit: Denver rookie running back Peyton Hillis suffered a hamstring injury late in the second quarter and did not return. Hillis has flourished since becoming Denver's lead tailback a month ago. Hillis, a rookie fullback, got the job after three Denver running backs were lost for the season with injuries. The only healthy Broncos tailback after Hillis was hurt Sunday was Tatum Bell, who signed three weeks ago. Bell did have a key 28-yard run in the second half as the Broncos finished off a win in which they had to score 17 unanswered points. The Broncos will need Hillis down the stretch to keep balance to the offense. He had 58 yards, including an 18-yard touchdown run, on eight carries before his injury. Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said the injury Hillis suffered often costs a player a month. However the team's trainer said through the PR staff that is premature. Hillis said after the game that he doesn't think the injury is overly serious. Marshall has a big game: Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall hadn't caught more than six passes in a game for the past six games. However, he broke out big time Sunday, catching 11 passes for 91 yards. He had two touchdowns and he made a huge catch on third down on the final drive as Denver ran out the clock. Marshall has 83 catches for 1,033 yards. With Denver probably heading for the postseason, Marshall will be a key, especially if Hillis is out for a while. Marshall has been dealing with leg ailments, and quarterback Jay Cutler said his performance Sunday was significant. "That was big for him," said Cutler, who completed 32 of 40 pass attempts for 286 yards. Denver shows some consistency: The Broncos have now won four of their past five games and ended a three-game losing streak at home. While it wasn't an easy win, it was important because the Broncos showed some consistency. Denver has had trouble beating lesser opponents this season while it has played up to its competition. A perfect example was the previous two weeks, when Oakland won 31-10 in Denver and then the Broncos cooled off the Jets, 34-17, on the road last week. "I think we're clicking at the right time," Denver cornerback Dre' Bly said. "We're fighting our inconsistencies."
Posts: 1,454

12-07-2008, 11:54 PM	#48
Ultra Peanut v^V^v^V^v^V^ Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Holland* Casino cash: $10005177	He can say this now, because there's no chance we get Stafford. Orakpo's coo. __________________
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12-08-2008, 12:07 AM	#55
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $2361769	I guess I just don't see what everyone is excited about. He is a serviceable QB when you run an offense that doesn't ask him to do too much. He is accuracy is good at short distances, but he's pretty erratic over 20 yards. What will he look like when Tony retires? What is his outstanding attribute that he will build his career on? Arm strength? Accuracy? Tough to bring down? Touch on the deep ball? Pocket presence? Study of the game? Leadership? Most young QBs that develop into franchise guys have something special that you can see from day one. Can anyone tell me what that something is for Thigpen? Do you envision a time in his career when he trots onto the field down by 3 with 3 minutes left in the game and the other team just dreads what they know is to follow? I don't get that vibe at all. I hope he goes to the Hall of Fame. But I just don't see the potential for that.
Posts: 45,536