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Old 05-02-2012, 12:05 PM  
Quesadilla Joe Quesadilla Joe is offline
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Junior Seau dead, probable suicide

North County Times reporting Seau "found dead by a housekeeper of a gunshot wound to the chest."

https://twitter.com/#!/LATimesfarmer...55054793560065


Junior Seau Dead Cops Investigating Shooting

Cops are currently at Seau's home just outside San Diego. Seau was 43-years-old ... and leaves behind 3 kids and an ex-wife.

Seau was a beast in the NFL -- skyrocketing to fame thanks to his explosive play with the San Diego Chargers, Miami Dolphins and New England Patriots. The USC standout was selected in the first round of the NFL draft in 1990 and played in the league for 20 years.

Seau was involved in a car accident back in 2010 when he drove his SUV off a cliff in Carlsbad, CA hours after he was arrested for allegedly attacking his girlfriend. Seau later said he was not trying to kill himself ... insisting he had fallen asleep at the wheel.

http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/02/junior-seau-dead/

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Old 05-03-2012, 08:19 AM   #421
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Like Phil, I detest suicide. But unlike Phil, I refuse to damn a person that is in so much pain(a pain that I will never know) that the actually end their own life. There is so much in this world that I do not understand, and this is one of them.
I feel that I am a spiritual person and refuse to judge another person. Espeially on is so much pain. Even though I detest his action, I feel sarrow for him, his family and friends.
I'm neither judging them nor damning them. I'm just not going out of my way to get emotional about it.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:21 AM   #422
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A friend was having an affair, loved both women, couldn't decide on which and in a fit of drunken stupor killed himself on Christmas Eve with his young children downstairs at a party the family was hosting.
A house full of friends and family celebrating Christmas forever tarnished with the memory of that night. We were invited but did not attend that party, thank God.

If there was an argument for suicide being selfish his suicide would fit the bill. Yet after the shock and anger wears off you see a tragic story of someone who lost control of their life, was living a lie, drank too much and had a gun in the house.

We often wonder, if he'd just waited until the morning would he have made the same choice? We think he wouldn't. Believe it or not, he was a fantastic father, good husband, and all around loveable sweet guy. The last person in the world you would call 'selfish.'

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Old 05-03-2012, 08:22 AM   #423
InChiefsHell InChiefsHell is offline
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People who kill themselves are not automatically insane. Depression is not insanity. Millions of people suffer depression, and almost none of them kill themselves.

If you kill yourself due to depression, you are probably an ego-driven idiot who cared about yourself more than your family.
Define insane. I've always thought of it as the opposite of sane. Sane being of sound healthy mind. Insane meaning not of sound healthy mind. THere are varying degrees of insanity, and as I said earlier, Junior probably could have and should have gotten help. In that sense, it IS his responsibility. But I can't ever know what it's like to be in the head of a person who has everything going for him and every reason to live who doesn't feel like it's a good idea to live. You say selfish, I say ****in' nuts.

Suicide does not make sense. It goes against our basic instinct of survival. Hense, if you feel the need to off yourself, there is something seriously wrong upstairs.

That doesn't excuse it, by the way. But it sure provides explanations.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:27 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by Phobia View Post
I'm neither judging them nor damning them. I'm just not going out of my way to get emotional about it.
I'm not about judging other in any way, shape or form. But the fact is if anyone deserves to be judged for an idiotic action, suicide has to be the the Number One Idiotic Action in existence and therefore should get the most leeway when people judge others for it.

No offense Junior - RIP.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:28 AM   #425
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Originally Posted by Phobia View Post
I'm neither judging them nor damning them. I'm just not going out of my way to get emotional about it.
Since neither one of us actually knew him, I understand your position!

Oh, and,

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Um. No. Sometimes I have trouble believing you can find your mouth with a spoon.
Occasionally, I have this problem myself!! Given my girth.....not often enough!
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:38 AM   #426
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Um. No. Sometimes I have trouble believing you can find your mouth with a spoon.

I arrested a kid and added the charge of resisting and assault when he folded my knee backwards during the handcuffing. Later he said he wasn't resisting, he just didn't want to be arrested.



This seemed like another of those moments. "He's not selfish, sure he cheated and spent quality time with another woman that could have been spent on his wife or family, but he's anything but selfish."

It boggles my mind.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:43 AM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
People who kill themselves are not automatically insane. Depression is not insanity.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Millions of people suffer depression, and almost none of them kill themselves.
Technically correct, though a little harshly put. Depression is a major risk factor for suicide, and the suicide rates are something like 4 to 6 times greater for people who have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
If you kill yourself due to depression, you are probably an ego-driven idiot who cared about yourself more than your family.
Incorrect. Even though it's not 'insanity' per se, it's a mental disorder, and when someone is suffering from it, they're not thinking correctly. Whether they're an ego-driven idiot or not doesn't enter into it.

[QUOTE=alnorth;8590999]If suicide was just random out of the blue crazy, we should be seeing wealthy and happily married people suddenly snapping at the same rate as everyone else, but they don't. Somehow, when you are handed a divorce or you are staring down the barrel of bankruptcy (like Seau), you tend to kill yourself a lot more often. Though insane people killing themselves does happen, that is not random insanity, that is ego-driven "if I can't have her/money, then I don't want to live", without much thought for family.[QUOTE]
Please remember there is conditional depression - I lost my job, my girlfriend left me, Christmas sucks, that sort of thing - and clinical depression, which has nothing to do with how well someone's life is going, and hits wealthy and happily married people at just the same rate as everyone else. To wit: Rod Steiger, who suffered so badly from it that he didn't get out of bed for years, until medical technology caught up with him.

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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Automatically presuming all people who kill themselves were crazy, and we need to try to understand their pain and not come down on them seems like enabling to me. Many people who kill themselves want everyone to know how much of a tortured soul they were and react by sympathetically trying to understand them. If they knew instead that the reaction would be very negative, that after the shock and grief wears off we'd all remember them with anger as someone who was selfish, maybe they would think twice. If we incorrectly tarnish the memory of someone who was really crazy, so what? They are dead, we're not hurting them.
Moving away from fact-checking now, I can kind of see your concern here. It stands to reason that there are people who will take advantage (consciously or sub-consciously) of the sympathy that depression gets, and it must be hard to get them to knock it off, or to see past it. Also, I can tell you without fail that there are people who pretend like they're going to kill themselves for the attention, which is vile and selfish. Mixed in with them, though, are people who are really suffering from a terrifying, ghostly disorder that you can't always see (unlike the first two kinds of people, they're generally not out for attention). So, it's really dangerous to just figure they should man up and get over it, because it could really push someone who serious has the big-time disorder, right over the edge.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:50 AM   #428
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If you kill yourself due to depression, you are probably an ego-driven idiot who cared about yourself more than your family.
I am glad to see you are a mental health expert.

If you don't think major depression is a mental illness, you are ignorant. Many people don't know how to get help with a mental illness because of the stigma that comes with it from assholes like you. Or from the fact we continue to cut mental health services across this country. Or how about from the fact that major depression, if left untreated, affects your judgement.

If you honestly think someone makes a impulsive decision to end it one day, you are wrong. Most of the these people deal with inner demons for quite a while.

Go back to living in the 60's where people with mental illnesses were told to just deal with it if you want to post such a ****ing dumb statement. I honestly can't believe people still think this way. You have obviously never had a person close to you end it. Sadly, that is probably what it will take for you to get it.

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Originally Posted by Phobia View Post
I'm neither judging them nor damning them. I'm just not going out of my way to get emotional about it.
I totally don't mind this stance, especially when it is someone you don't know. It is just amazing that people claim that suicide is an idiotic action, no matter what the other circumstances were surrounding that situation or person.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:56 AM   #429
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:59 AM   #430
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where do we rate the suicide for attention seekers? Example, the other day call to 911 for help, "just took a bunch of pills and tried to kill myself". I'm first on scene, he/she wants water, has a bunch of paste in his/her mouth and lips. I say no, and ask what he/she took, answer was Ramelteon. Medic gets there, offers to let he/she have some water if he/she promises not to swallow it, only to rinse out his/her mouth. He/she swallows the water and the pills in front of us.

That was for attention, painfully obvious, but what if he/she died that night from the pills? Modern medicine is good, but sometimes it doesn't save everyone. Can I call those people idiots and pass judgement? Or should I say, "ahh, poor boy/girl, probably had a hard life, I'd probably be seeking attention anyway I could if I had been treated or seen what he/she saw."?
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:16 AM   #431
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where do we rate the suicide for attention seekers? Example, the other day call to 911 for help, "just took a bunch of pills and tried to kill myself". I'm first on scene, he/she wants water, has a bunch of paste in his/her mouth and lips. I say no, and ask what he/she took, answer was Ramelteon. Medic gets there, offers to let he/she have some water if he/she promises not to swallow it, only to rinse out his/her mouth. He/she swallows the water and the pills in front of us.

That was for attention, painfully obvious, but what if he/she died that night from the pills? Modern medicine is good, but sometimes it doesn't save everyone. Can I call those people idiots and pass judgement? Or should I say, "ahh, poor boy/girl, probably had a hard life, I'd probably be seeking attention anyway I could if I had been treated or seen what he/she saw."?
Hard to pass judgement either way in that instance but that does sound a bit attention seeking. But without knowing the back story, it is hard to know. I suppose you can separate the attention seeking suicide attempts quite simply from those who use guns. Guns usually aren't attention seeking attempts if they actually pull the trigger. Most of those attempts are permanent, and even if they do miss, the physical effects are lasting.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:27 AM   #432
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Soooo basically they get to live like the rest of us.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:31 AM   #433
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Soooo basically they get to live like the rest of us.
Most of us don't make that kind of money in such large quantities at such a young age. I don't necessarily feel sorry for them, but I'd say there's not much normal about their lives, at least while they are in the league.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:40 AM   #434
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Soooo basically they get to live like the rest of us.
I don't feel sorry for them either but in the real-world young CEOs who come into that kind of money can do things to secure their place within a company for years to come. In pro sports, that isn't possible because age conquers all. I honestly think many of these guys think they will have much longer careers than they realize.

I hope all professional leagues really starts providing more education to these players about managing their money. Some of these dudes are straight idiots with their money but I guess that is what happens when you give a twenty-something a large sum of money.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:46 AM   #435
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I don't feel sorry for them either but in the real-world young CEOs who come into that kind of money can do things to secure their place within a company for years to come. In pro sports, that isn't possible because age conquers all. I honestly think many of these guys think they will have much longer careers than they realize.

I hope all professional leagues really starts providing more education to these players about managing their money. Some of these dudes are straight idiots with their money but I guess that is what happens when you give a twenty-something a large sum of money.
The NFL already spends a HUGE amount of time teaching these guys "life skills". The problem is that they're learning bad habits BEFORE they ever come to the NFL.

Hell, some of those guys drafted last week were showing off their 5-year old kids, which makes them 15 or 16 when they became a father. They get a free ride through college, often without being forced to actually have a real major (or even study for that matter) and on and on and on it goes.

The NFL doesn't necessarily deserve to bear the brunt of the blame, IMO. Society as a whole needs to take a step back and look at this if that's the case.
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