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Old 03-22-2008, 12:27 PM  
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Pentagon Exhaustive review *does* find links between Saddam and al Qaida afterall

While the actual document does have a line in the executive summary saying that no "smoking gun" was found to indicate a cooperative relationship between Saddam and al Qaeda, the report goes on to document an incredible number of cooperative relationships between Saddam and terrorists, both secular pan Arabic revolutionaries to islamic radicals bent on religious jihad.

Among the terrorists the report ties Saddam to is an organization known as the Egyptian Islamic Jihad. The report quotes a memo written in 1993 documenting some of these cooperative relationships, including the one with EIJ:

Quote:
[18 March 1993]

We list herein the organizations that our agency [IIS] cooperates with and have relations with various elements in many parts of the Arab world and who also have the expertise to carry out assignments indicated in the above directive [the cited directive has not been discovered yet].

Islamic Jihad Organization [Egyptian Islamic Jihad]

In a meeting in the Sudan we agreed to renew our relations with the Islamic Jihad Organization in Egypt. Our information on the group is as follows:
  • It was established in 1979.
  • Its goal is to apply the Islamic shari' a law and establish Islamic rule.
  • It is considered one of the most brutal Egyptian organizations. It carried out numerous successful operations, including the assassination of Sadat.
  • We have previously met with the organization's representative and we agreed on a plan to carry out commando operations against the Egyptian regime.
In 1991, bin Laden right hand man, Ayman al-Zawahiri took over as the head of EIJ. Throughout the 1990s, Zawahiri and bin Laden worked closely together and in the summer of 2001, Zawahiri and bin Laden merged their organizations. In fact, Egyptians from EIJ made up a good portion of the cadre of the merged organization. For example, the first of the string of "third ranking members of al Qaeda" killed or captured by the US, Mohammed Atef, was EIJ. So it's hardly a stretch to say that there was a history of cooperative ties with entities that were not only al Qaeda, but core al Qaeda on the day that the 9/11 attacks occurred.

No one has said that Saddam was involved in the specific plot carried out on 9/11, but his actual ties, including cooperative ties, are well established now. And for anyone concerned with the threat of terrorism against the US on Sept. 12, 2001, they'd be negligent to ignore the overwhelming evidence that Saddam was a long-term, committed terror sponsor with a deep sense of hatred for the US and plenty of connections to al Qaeda to warrant concern that there were collaborative ties either related to 9/11 or to attacks not yet performed.
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:23 PM   #2
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:31 PM   #3
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This obscure letter totally makes our sacrifice worth it for sure.
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:33 PM   #4
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Thanks patteau for posting the link to the document and that info. I have to admit this evidence could be perceived that they were working together because they both had a common enemy and they both ran in the same circles.

I thought the abstract summed it up best

Quote:
Captured Iraqi documents have uncovered evidence that links the regime of Saddam Hussein to regional and global terrorism, including a
variety of revolutionary, liberation, nationalist, and Islamic terrorist organizations. While these documents do not reveal direct coordination
and assistance between the Saddam regime and the al Qaeda network, they do indicate that Saddam was willing to use, albeit cautiously,
operatives affiliated with al Qaeda as long as Saddam could have these terrorist–operatives monitored closely. Because Saddam’s security
organizations and Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network operated with similar aims (at least in the short term), considerable overlap was
inevitable when monitoring, contacting, financing, and training the same outside groups. This created both the appearance of and, in some
ways, a “de facto” link between the organizations. At times, these organizations would work together in pursuit of shared goals but still
maintain their autonomy and independence because of innate caution and mutual distrust. Though the execution of Iraqi terror plots was not
always successful, evidence shows that Saddam’s use of terrorist tactics and his support for terrorist groups remained strong up until the
collapse of the regime.

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Old 03-22-2008, 09:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Thanks patteau for posting the link to the document and that info. I have to admit this evidence could be perceived that they were working together because they both had a common enemy and they both ran in the same circles.

I thought the abstract summed it up best
In light of the links between Saddam and terrorism in general and between Saddam and some of the same people/organizations involved with bin Laden in particular, shouldn't it finally be time for people to admit that just maybe the Bush administration saw Iraq as a real threat to our national security (as opposed to an opportunity to get revenge for the assassination attempt on GHWB or to placate domestic oil executives who secretly planned an Iraq invasion with the Cheney Energy Task Force)? And shouldn't they get some credit for admitting that they didn't have proof that Saddam was involved in 9/11 even though they discussed their suspicions on numerous occasions (now that we know their suspicions had some reasonable basis in fact)?
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
This obscure letter totally makes our sacrifice worth it for sure.
It's more than an obscure letter. I just quoted a few sentences from what critics have called an "exhaustive review". There is actually quite an amazing amount of evidence of Saddam's harboring, sponsoring, and facilitating activities related to terrorism. I've been aware of the 9/11 commission links between Saddam and al Qaeda since that report was released (unlike many who believed the spin that "no evidence of collaborative links" meant "no links"), but even I was surprised at how extensive Saddam's activities were when I looked through the report.
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:34 AM   #7
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Kind of figured this was the case when we got the editorialized version of the report two weeks ago.
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:39 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Kind of figured this was the case when we got the editorialized version of the report two weeks ago.
Yeah. It's curious why the WH hasn't done more to publicize a more accurate rendition of the report though. They do a poor job of defending themselves from attacks based on misinformation, IMO.
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Old 03-24-2008, 09:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
In light of the links between Saddam and terrorism in general and between Saddam and some of the same people/organizations involved with bin Laden in particular, shouldn't it finally be time for people to admit that just maybe the Bush administration saw Iraq as a real threat to our national security (as opposed to an opportunity to get revenge for the assassination attempt on GHWB or to placate domestic oil executives who secretly planned an Iraq invasion with the Cheney Energy Task Force)? And shouldn't they get some credit for admitting that they didn't have proof that Saddam was involved in 9/11 even though they discussed their suspicions on numerous occasions (now that we know their suspicions had some reasonable basis in fact)?
This shows more threat than what you posted.


Russia 'warned U.S. about Saddam'



MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian intelligence services warned Washington several times that Saddam Hussein's regime planned terrorist attacks against the United States, President Vladimir Putin has said.

The warnings were provided after September 11, 2001 and before the start of the Iraqi war, Putin said Friday.

The planned attacks were targeted both inside and outside the United States, said Putin, who made the remarks during a visit to Kazakhstan.

However, Putin said there was no evidence that Saddam's regime was involved in any terrorist attacks.

"I can confirm that after the events of September 11, 2001, and up to the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said.

He said the information was given to U.S. intelligence officers and that U.S. President George W. Bush expressed his gratitude to a top Russian intelligence official.

"This information was indeed passed on through our partner channels to our American colleagues and, moreover, President Bush had an opportunity and used this opportunity to personally thank the leader of one of the Russian special services for this information, which he considered to be very important," Putin said.

Putin made his comments in response to a question from reporters seeking clarification on similar statements leaked by an unnamed intelligence officer in a dispatch by the Interfax news agency.

Russia opposed the invasion of Iraq and Putin said Friday the information did not effect its stance on the war.

He said there were international norms and procedures that weren't observed regarding "the use of force in international actions."

Regarding how the information might have been related to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Putin said, "Whether or not this was sufficient basis to state the United States was acting within the boundaries of self-defense, well, I don't know. This is a separate issue."

The United States, meanwhile, never mentioned the Russian intelligence in its arguments for going to war.

Hours after Putin spoke, Bush addressed troops at Fort Lewis in the U.S. state of Washington, but he didn't react to the Russian leader's remarks.

He repeated his position that Saddam's regime was a threat to the world and that dangers it posed were the grounds for the invasion last year.

"This is a regime which gave cash rewards to families of suicide bombers. This is a regime that sheltered terrorist groups," Bush said.

He also cited Musab Abu al-Zarqawi, the wanted insurgent in Iraq suspected of many terrorist bombings in Iraq, as an "al Qaeda associate."

Asked about Putin's remarks, U.S. National Security Council spokesman Sean McCormack said, "We don't typically comment on intelligence matters. We do have an excellent record of cooperation in the war on terror with the Russian government. And a big part of the cooperation is information and intelligence sharing."

Putin's comments come two days after members of a U.S. commission looking into the September 11 attacks found there was "no collaborative" relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

The panel also found "no credible evidence" that Iraq was involved in the September 11 terrorist attacks carried out by al Qaeda hijackers.

Bush and his vice president, Dick Cheney, have strongly disputed suggestions that the commission's conclusions contradict statements they made in the run-up to the Iraq war about links between Iraq and al Qaeda.

Cheney said Thursday the evidence is "overwhelming" that al Qaeda had a relationship with Saddam's regime. He said media reports suggesting that the 9/11 commission has reached a contradictory conclusion were "irresponsible." (Full story)

Bush, who has said himself that there is no evidence Iraq was involved in 9/11, sought to explain the distinction Thursday.

The president said that while the administration never "said that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated" with Iraqi help, "we did say there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda."

"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda [is] because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," Bush said. (Full story)

In the lead-up to the Iraq war, Bush made stronger statements alleging cooperation between Iraq and al Qaeda.

In a October 2002 speech he said, "Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases."

The 9/11 commission's report said bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq during his time in Sudan, despite his opposition to (Saddam) Hussein's secular regime."

It says the contact was pushed by the Sudanese, "to protect their own ties with Iraq," but after bin Laden asked for space in Iraq for training camps, "Iraq apparently never responded."

The report also said, "There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda also occurred after bin Laden had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship."

CNN Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...ing/index.html
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Old 03-24-2008, 03:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
shouldn't it finally be time for people to admit that just maybe the Bush administration saw Iraq as a real threat to our national security
How dare you have the cahones to attribute what Colin Powell said and use it as a way to credit his quotes to Bush!
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Old 03-24-2008, 03:20 PM   #11
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It is heartening to see that these mock conventrions for the Flat Earth Society get so little traffic.
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Old 03-24-2008, 03:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
It is heartening to see that these mock conventrions for the Flat Earth Society get so little traffic.
I'm glad to see you stopped by. No more excuses for saying that the war in Iraq isn't logically a part of the GWoT and no more excuses for pretending that Bush didn't have a reason to be concerned about a Saddam/al Qaeda nexus.
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Old 03-24-2008, 04:34 PM   #13
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Old 03-24-2008, 04:36 PM   #14
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Wow and tomorrow Bush will announce that he is a great President and patteeu of course will believe him because Bush of course has no reason to be doubted.

Again
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Old 03-24-2008, 04:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Captured Iraqi documents have uncovered evidence that links the regime of Saddam Hussein to regional and global terrorism, including a
variety of revolutionary, liberation, nationalist, and Islamic terrorist organizations. While these documents do not reveal direct coordination
and assistance between the Saddam regime and the al Qaeda network, they do indicate that Saddam was willing to use, albeit cautiously,
operatives affiliated with al Qaeda as long as Saddam could have these terrorist–operatives monitored closely. Because Saddam’s security
organizations and Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network operated with similar aims (at least in the short term), considerable overlap was
inevitable when monitoring, contacting, financing, and training the same outside groups. This created both the appearance of and, in some
ways, a “de facto” link between the organizations. At times, these organizations would work together in pursuit of shared goals but still
maintain their autonomy and independence because of innate caution and mutual distrust. Though the execution of Iraqi terror plots was not
always successful, evidence shows that Saddam’s use of terrorist tactics and his support for terrorist groups remained strong up until the
collapse of the regime.
By these standards the U.S. was probably one of the world's largest supporters of terrorism during the Cold War. The bar is set so low so as to be ridiculous.
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