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Old 05-04-2018, 11:28 AM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Mueller slammed by Judge in Manfort Case

U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case

ALEXANDRIA, Va. (Reuters) - A federal judge on Friday sharply criticized Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s criminal case in Virginia against President Trump’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, and openly questioned whether Mueller exceeded his prosecutorial powers by bringing it.

“I don’t see what relationship this indictment has with anything the special counsel is authorized to investigate,” U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III in the Eastern District of Virginia said.

At a tense hearing at the federal courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia, the judge said Mueller should not have “unfettered power” in his Russia probe and that the charges against Manafort did not arise from the investigation into Moscow’s alleged meddling in the 2016 U.S. election.

“It’s unlikely you’re going to persuade me the special counsel has unfettered power to do whatever he wants,” said Ellis, who was appointed to the bench by Republican President Ronald Reagan.

Manafort is facing charges in both Virginia and Washington. The Virginia case charges him with offenses including tax and bank fraud.

The other case in Washington accuses him of conspiring to launder money and failing to register as a foreign agent when he lobbied for the pro-Russia Ukrainian government.

None of the charges relate, however, to Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign or possible collusion with Russia. Trump has denied any collusion.

Manafort’s attorney Kevin Downing has argued that the charges must dismissed because the FBI investigation dates back to 2014, and therefore did not arise from Mueller’s probe.

The bulk of Friday’s questions by the judge were aimed squarely at Michael Dreeben, the deputy solicitor general who is currently working in Mueller’s office.

While Dreeben conceded that Mueller had inherited the probe into Manafort after his May 2017 appointment by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, he insisted the office is on solid legal ground and has the power to proceed with prosecuting the case.

“Our investigative scope does cover the activity” in the indictment,” Dreeben told the judge.

“Cover bank fraud in 2005 and 2007? Tell me how!” Ellis retorted.

Friday marked the third time now that Manafort has tried to get the charges against him dropped.

He first filed a civil case alleging the Justice Department’s order appointing Mueller was overly broad in violation of Justice Department rules, but the case was tossed last month.

He is also seeking to get the Washington-based criminal charges against him dismissed on similar legal grounds that were presented to the Virginia judge on Friday.

The federal judge in Washington, Amy Berman Jackson, has not yet ruled on the request to dismiss that indictment.

Friday, however, marked the first time that Manafort’s arguments about the scope of Mueller’s powers appeared to have gained some traction.

During the oral arguments, Ellis repeatedly chided Mueller’s $10 million budget.

He also asked whether Rosenstein, who oversees the probe and is considered an important witness into whether Trump tried to obstruct justice, is recused from the case.

And he repeatedly claimed that the indictment appeared to serve as a way for Mueller to “assert leverage” over Manafort.

“The vernacular,” he said “is to sing.”

Ellis did not issue a ruling on Manafort’s motion to dismiss the indictment Friday.


But he asked why a run-of-the-mill bank fraud case with no “reference to any Russian individual or Russian bank” could not be handed over to the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Eastern District of Virginia.

As an example, he pointed to the FBI’s probe into Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen, and mused that the special counsel had turned that matter over to prosecutors in Manhattan.

Dreeben declined to discuss the Cohen case, but said that Mueller’s probe into Manafort was authorized by Rosenstein.

Rosenstein’s May 2017 order laying out the scope of the probe, he told the judge, did not reveal all the details because they involve sensitive national security and counterintelligence matters that could not be divulged publicly, but were conveyed to Mueller.

Ellis balked, saying Dreeben’s answer essentially means the Justice Department was “not really telling the truth” about the probe and invites someone to respond by saying, “Come on, man!”

Dreeben also stressed that Rosenstein wrote another memo two months later, in August 2017, explicitly granting Mueller the power to investigate Manafort’s Ukraine dealings years before the 2016 election.

Ellis complained that the bulk of that August memo he has received was highly redacted.

He directed Mueller’s office to take two weeks to consult with U.S. intelligence agencies to see if they will sign off so that he can personally review a sealed, unredacted version of the memo.

Dreeben told him the redacted portions did not pertain to the Manafort case.

“I’ll be the judge,” Ellis said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1I51WE
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:05 PM   #46
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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The Judge does not like Democrats.

https://wtop.com/virginia/2017/11/ju...certification/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.244e06dd90db

This judge is in the bag, deep for the GOP. He does want to Nunez it.

The threw out a "war crimes" lawsuit against Erik Prince for Blackwater killing 20 civilians.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...#8203;782.html

Then dismissed a case against the US for torture.

https://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-la...rets-privilege

On Thursday, May 18, 2006, Ellis dismissed a lawsuit filed by Khalid El-Masri, a German citizen, against the CIA and three private companies allegedly involved with his kidnapping, transport, and torture in Kabul. Ellis explained his belief that a public trial would "present a grave risk of injury to national security",[6] though acknowledging that:
If El-Masri's allegations are true or essentially true, then all fair-minded people, including those who believe that state secrets must be protected, that this lawsuit cannot proceed, and that renditions are a necessary step to take in this war, must also agree that El-Masri has suffered injuries as a result of our country's mistake and deserves a remedy.[7]

How Two Federal Judges Invoked "Secrecy" to Block Access to Bush Torture Data

https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-tw...ure-data/11358
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:06 PM   #47
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Duh.

He's ignoring obvious crimes just to parrot the Trumpian "Scope" of the investigation. The intent here is for Mueller to have to show his hand (Unredacted Evidence) to the White House. This was always an intention of the White House, even Giuliani confirmed this track.

Good luck. Its a transparent ploy (which is why the usual fall for a scam crowd is falling for this scam)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's ignoring this, that and the other thing. So now the Judge is in cahoots with Trump....right, sure........
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:06 PM   #48
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:08 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
The Judge does not like Democrats.

https://wtop.com/virginia/2017/11/ju...certification/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.244e06dd90db

This judge is in the bag, deep for the GOP. He does want to Nunez it.

The threw out a "war crimes" lawsuit against Erik Prince for Blackwater killing 20 civilians.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...#8203;782.html

Then dismissed a case against the US for torture.

https://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-la...rets-privilege

On Thursday, May 18, 2006, Ellis dismissed a lawsuit filed by Khalid El-Masri, a German citizen, against the CIA and three private companies allegedly involved with his kidnapping, transport, and torture in Kabul. Ellis explained his belief that a public trial would "present a grave risk of injury to national security",[6] though acknowledging that:
If El-Masri's allegations are true or essentially true, then all fair-minded people, including those who believe that state secrets must be protected, that this lawsuit cannot proceed, and that renditions are a necessary step to take in this war, must also agree that El-Masri has suffered injuries as a result of our country's mistake and deserves a remedy.[7]

How Two Federal Judges Invoked "Secrecy" to Block Access to Bush Torture Data

https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-tw...ure-data/11358
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:09 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ImScumOfTheEarth View Post
The Judge does not like Democrats.

https://wtop.com/virginia/2017/11/ju...certification/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.244e06dd90db

This judge is in the bag, deep for the GOP. He does want to Nunez it.

The threw out a "war crimes" lawsuit against Erik Prince for Blackwater killing 20 civilians.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...#8203;782.html

Then dismissed a case against the US for torture.

https://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-la...rets-privilege

On Thursday, May 18, 2006, Ellis dismissed a lawsuit filed by Khalid El-Masri, a German citizen, against the CIA and three private companies allegedly involved with his kidnapping, transport, and torture in Kabul. Ellis explained his belief that a public trial would "present a grave risk of injury to national security",[6] though acknowledging that:
If El-Masri's allegations are true or essentially true, then all fair-minded people, including those who believe that state secrets must be protected, that this lawsuit cannot proceed, and that renditions are a necessary step to take in this war, must also agree that El-Masri has suffered injuries as a result of our country's mistake and deserves a remedy.[7]

How Two Federal Judges Invoked "Secrecy" to Block Access to Bush Torture Data

https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-tw...ure-data/11358
bwaaaahahahahahha
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I have an issue with Livesteam.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:10 PM   #51
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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The desperation is getting thick already cause this Judge took Mueller to task. Hasn't even ruled against him and probably won't but the Libs must preempt the possibility with "he don't like Dems"...


But it's okay for Mueller to have a team of all Dems.....
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:13 PM   #52
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bwaaaahahahahahha
him don't like Dems but Mueller can hire nothing but Dems and we are supposed to not question that at all.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:15 PM   #53
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I fully expect this Judge Ellis to be blasted continually from the MSM all weekend long.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:15 PM   #54
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I have to appreciate a judge that uses an ESPN “come on man” reference in court. Particularly when III Sticks has no sense of humor. This whole deal is grand theatre.
“Ellis balked, saying Dreeben’s answer essentially means the Justice Department was “not really telling the truth” about the probe and invites someone to respond by saying, “Come on, man”
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:15 PM   #55
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's ignoring this, that and the other thing. So now the Judge is in cahoots with Trump....right, sure........
Yeah. Why do think Manfort has been shopping around looking for a judge to dismiss his case? This has been the like 3rd judge he has tried this on.

And Team Trump has been pretty vocal about wanting to get their hands on what information Mueller has.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:17 PM   #56
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The desperation is getting thick already cause this Judge took Mueller to task. Hasn't even ruled against him and probably won't but the Libs must preempt the possibility with "he don't like Dems"...


But it's okay for Mueller to have a team of all Dems.....
Are you still trying to make that false talking about about team of dems a thing?

Talk about actual desperation.

And yes, we know this judge isn't going to rule against him. Its a transparent ploy to get redacted info for the WH, throw up a minor roadblock, and drag out the process.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:19 PM   #57
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I have to appreciate a judge that uses an ESPN “come on man” reference in court. Particularly when III Sticks has no sense of humor. This whole deal is grand theatre.
“Ellis balked, saying Dreeben’s answer essentially means the Justice Department was “not really telling the truth” about the probe and invites someone to respond by saying, “Come on, man”
If you try and follow the Mueller teams' logic you will confuse yourself. The Judge did a great job withe the analogy he posed to the Mueller team.

If you can investigate Manafort for non-Trump, non-election, non-Russian issues that happened 10 years ago. Why aren't you investigating Cohen?

The Mueller team openly admitted they turned over the Cohen case because obviously it has nothing to do with Russia and\or Trump. And clearly the Manafort charges have absolutely nothing to do with Russia and\or Trump.


It's enough to make your head spin. The Judge pinned them down and while he ultimately will side with Mueller, imo, he at least is exposing the bullshit.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:20 PM   #58
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Yeah. Why do think Manfort has been shopping around looking for a judge to dismiss his case? This has been the like 3rd judge he has tried this on.

And Team Trump has been pretty vocal about wanting to get their hands on what information Mueller has.
The same reason Mueller shops Judges, you idiot. Shopping Judges is nothing new. Well, maybe to you.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:20 PM   #59
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/04/polit...ing/index.html

One way or another, Mueller and Rosenstein are going to have to come clean on everything.
It's going to be under seal so are you thinking the judge will leak it?

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Old 05-04-2018, 01:21 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Are you still trying to make that false talking about about team of dems a thing?

Talk about actual desperation.

And yes, we know this judge isn't going to rule against him. Its a transparent ploy to get redacted info for the WH, throw up a minor roadblock, and drag out the process.
You cry about a Judge not liking Dems and then post this.

Holy ****, your dumbassery continues to amaze me with every post.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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