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Old 05-20-2018, 03:08 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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My Liberalism

I believe in the free market as the engine of a progressive society. A government that owns the means of production rather than allowing it to flourish and regulate it when necessary is a government that strangles innovation and therefore can uphold progression in our quality of life.

As such, I am a free market capitalist. My goal is to make life for everyone in society as promising as possible, and you squander that with any other economic model.

However capitalism is a competition, and it carries with it, for all its benefits, one indisputable downside: there will be some that do extremely well for themselves, most of us will do pretty well to well, and there will be some folks at the bottom of the economic ladder who do very poorly. You could put the fire of god into every working-age adult, but it won't matter, at the end of the day, not everybody can "win." A fair percentage will struggle, and I don't see any way that the free market can rectify that on its own.

As a result, I believe a social safety net is necessary for those who fall through the cracks of our capitalist society. Food stamps for those who are hungry. Section D housing for those that qualify. Unemployment for those looking for work. Medicaid for the poor. Medicare/social security for the elderly. Disability for those that cannot work. And there are other aspects to the net that I think should be added but for now that's a fair start.

The people who need and deserve this support cannot pay for it on its own, so I am a supporter of economic redistribution to support those in the social safety net. I believe it is humane as well as beneficial: for every dollar you put into food stamps, something like four dollars ends up getting pumped into the economy.

The government does have a regulatory role in economics, as well. Keep in mind, the goal is to make society a progressively better place for everyone at all economic levels. So while companies should remain privately owned and operated with maximum freedom of choice and contract, the government should ensure they are not gouging customers. The government should ensure that they are not producing products that risks our lives. The government should ensure that we are not globally altering the planet's climate at our peril. The government should ensure that companies pay their workers a living wage, that minorities' rights are protected, that women can take time off after giving birth. That contracts are honored. That employees are not fired and have their lives upended indiscriminately. That employees can band together if they wish and collectively debate their employers for what they consider fair treatment/compensation.

To my mind, that's the precarious, imperfect balance that liberalism strives for. Balancing the freedom of a progressive society while also managing the worst impulses of capitalism that has little incentive to care about the disadvantaged and tends to consolidate power in the hands of very few.

This is, I think, the "cocktail napkin" description of mainstream American liberalism. And I think that's a lot more reasonable that many in the conservative movement give it credit for.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:34 PM   #31
Marcellus Marcellus is offline
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Direkshun loves to display his stupidity.

Consistently wrong and consistently dumb but hey, he is consistent.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:35 PM   #32
Marcellus Marcellus is offline
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Our system is doing a great job of enriching a select few and screwing the rest, sadly.
How are you getting screwed? Whats holding you down from getting the life you are willing to put the effort out to achieve? Do tell.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:39 PM   #33
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The problem is liberals don't stop. They want government in everything. It would never be as limited as you lay it out.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:40 PM   #34
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ping2000 View Post
The problem is liberals don't stop. They want government in everything. It would never be as limited as you lay it out.
Exactly! Once they get one thing, they move onto the next thing for the govt to provide.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:18 PM   #35
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Communism is when the government owns the means to production, and basically operates a government-run economy that is intended to provide for all sectors of society fully but instead just ends up raping the population for its own gain.

I think there's a very strong difference between that and capitalism, which is what I described in the OP.
Let's go with NeoCom then, to distinguish from the old fashioned kind.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:36 PM   #36
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
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Originally Posted by ping2000 View Post
The problem is liberals don't stop.

That's a quality to be admired. Conservatives never even start.
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:06 PM   #37
Taco John Taco John is online now
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"In my version of liberalism, politicians can always be trusted to do the right thing against those pesky businesses. In fact, it's not even worth mentioning any sort of oversight of these venerable stalwarts of virtue. Unless, of course, they're conservative. We can say whatever we want about those racist assholes."
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Old 05-20-2018, 11:52 PM   #38
Over Yonder Over Yonder is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
That's a quality to be admired. Conservatives never even start.
That's nonsense, Prison. And you know it. When something is wrong, it is wrong. It doesn't matter if somebody crapped in my Cheerios but washed my spoon, they still crapped in my Cheerios.

The Dems still hate conservative America no matter what Trump or the R's do. They will pander the vote same as the R's. Voting for the D's (Including Claire) is voting against traditional America. That's the plain truth. You know that.

I'm as pissed as anybody over the Omnibus, but don't give the Dems the edge. They don't care about traditional America. If nothing else, do the blank ballot. As of today, that's my plan
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:15 AM   #39
Over Yonder Over Yonder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I believe in the free market as the engine of a progressive society. A government that owns the means of production rather than allowing it to flourish and regulate it when necessary is a government that strangles innovation and therefore can uphold progression in our quality of life.

As such, I am a free market capitalist. My goal is to make life for everyone in society as promising as possible, and you squander that with any other economic model.

However capitalism is a competition, and it carries with it, for all its benefits, one indisputable downside: there will be some that do extremely well for themselves, most of us will do pretty well to well, and there will be some folks at the bottom of the economic ladder who do very poorly. You could put the fire of god into every working-age adult, but it won't matter, at the end of the day, not everybody can "win." A fair percentage will struggle, and I don't see any way that the free market can rectify that on its own.

As a result, I believe a social safety net is necessary for those who fall through the cracks of our capitalist society. Food stamps for those who are hungry. Section D housing for those that qualify. Unemployment for those looking for work. Medicaid for the poor. Medicare/social security for the elderly. Disability for those that cannot work. And there are other aspects to the net that I think should be added but for now that's a fair start.

The people who need and deserve this support cannot pay for it on its own, so I am a supporter of economic redistribution to support those in the social safety net. I believe it is humane as well as beneficial: for every dollar you put into food stamps, something like four dollars ends up getting pumped into the economy.

The government does have a regulatory role in economics, as well. Keep in mind, the goal is to make society a progressively better place for everyone at all economic levels. So while companies should remain privately owned and operated with maximum freedom of choice and contract, the government should ensure they are not gouging customers. The government should ensure that they are not producing products that risks our lives. The government should ensure that we are not globally altering the planet's climate at our peril. The government should ensure that companies pay their workers a living wage, that minorities' rights are protected, that women can take time off after giving birth. That contracts are honored. That employees are not fired and have their lives upended indiscriminately. That employees can band together if they wish and collectively debate their employers for what they consider fair treatment/compensation.

To my mind, that's the precarious, imperfect balance that liberalism strives for. Balancing the freedom of a progressive society while also managing the worst impulses of capitalism that has little incentive to care about the disadvantaged and tends to consolidate power in the hands of very few.

This is, I think, the "cocktail napkin" description of mainstream American liberalism. And I think that's a lot more reasonable that many in the conservative movement give it credit for.
When you and me can come closer to the words of this song....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t7ECnE43QE

We will agree on free market
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Old 05-21-2018, 05:15 AM   #40
Hammock Parties Hammock Parties is online now
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You can't make the losers not losers by giving them free shit.
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Old 05-21-2018, 05:42 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I believe in the free market as the engine of a progressive society. A government that owns the means of production rather than allowing it to flourish and regulate it when necessary is a government that strangles innovation and therefore can uphold progression in our quality of life.

As such, I am a free market capitalist. My goal is to make life for everyone in society as promising as possible, and you squander that with any other economic model.

However capitalism is a competition, and it carries with it, for all its benefits, one indisputable downside: there will be some that do extremely well for themselves, most of us will do pretty well to well, and there will be some folks at the bottom of the economic ladder who do very poorly. You could put the fire of god into every working-age adult, but it won't matter, at the end of the day, not everybody can "win." A fair percentage will struggle, and I don't see any way that the free market can rectify that on its own.

As a result, I believe a social safety net is necessary for those who fall through the cracks of our capitalist society. Food stamps for those who are hungry. Section D housing for those that qualify. Unemployment for those looking for work. Medicaid for the poor. Medicare/social security for the elderly. Disability for those that cannot work. And there are other aspects to the net that I think should be added but for now that's a fair start.

The people who need and deserve this support cannot pay for it on its own, so I am a supporter of economic redistribution to support those in the social safety net. I believe it is humane as well as beneficial: for every dollar you put into food stamps, something like four dollars ends up getting pumped into the economy.

The government does have a regulatory role in economics, as well. Keep in mind, the goal is to make society a progressively better place for everyone at all economic levels. So while companies should remain privately owned and operated with maximum freedom of choice and contract, the government should ensure they are not gouging customers. The government should ensure that they are not producing products that risks our lives. The government should ensure that we are not globally altering the planet's climate at our peril. The government should ensure that companies pay their workers a living wage, that minorities' rights are protected, that women can take time off after giving birth. That contracts are honored. That employees are not fired and have their lives upended indiscriminately. That employees can band together if they wish and collectively debate their employers for what they consider fair treatment/compensation.

To my mind, that's the precarious, imperfect balance that liberalism strives for. Balancing the freedom of a progressive society while also managing the worst impulses of capitalism that has little incentive to care about the disadvantaged and tends to consolidate power in the hands of very few.

This is, I think, the "cocktail napkin" description of mainstream American liberalism. And I think that's a lot more reasonable that many in the conservative movement give it credit for.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:55 AM   #42
stevieray stevieray is offline
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Poverty in America.. ..Americans don't know.what poverty is....
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:17 AM   #43
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Poverty in America.. ..Americans don't know.what poverty is....
That doesn't mean we aren't entitled to rich peoples' stuff.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:19 AM   #44
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So.....You're a Commie.
Tl;Dr, thanks for the cliff notes
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:39 AM   #45
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Poverty in America.. ..Americans don't know.what poverty is....
But my iPhone has been SO SLOW lately
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