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Old 11-03-2016, 09:11 PM  
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
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*** Official 2017 Royals Offseason Repository ***

The reign is over. Time to begin the quest for the next one.

Interesting offseason opens for the Royals. Will they go all in for one last shot with this crew? Will they re-tool for 2018 and beyond? Will Dayton Moore actually decrease payroll this time?

Trades, free agent signings, rumors, plans, proposals... dump 'em all here, for this is... the offseason repository!

Royals Top Prospects, 2017

This is a list that’s going to seem a little bleak initially, as Raul Mondesi got enough ABs to age out of the prospect rankings (just barely – at 135 ABs, he is not rookie eligible). But that said, I like the talent and feel like this is a system that will actually be underrated by the prospect services.

Spoiler!

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Old 11-16-2016, 10:35 AM   #151
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:56 PM   #152
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http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/...f=11&t=1197956



It's discussed throughout this thread....

Pretty hilarious valuations on both sides there.

Yeah, Jaime Garcia has some value and so does Adams, but those guys are greatly overvaluing them.

Lorenzo Cain has produced more fWAR over the past three years than any full-or-part time CF not named Trout or Betts (yes, more than McCutchen). They're greatly undervaluing them.


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Old 11-16-2016, 12:59 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Pretty hilarious valuations on both sides there.

Yeah, Jaime Garcia has some value and so does Adams, but those guys are greatly overvaluing them.

Lorenzo Cain has produced more fWAR over the past three years than any full-or-part time CF not named Trout or Betts (yes, more than McCutchen). They're greatly undervaluing them.


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If the Cards plan on moving those two, it would take that plus to get a player like Cain. Even then, no smart GM is making that move when Adams is a lazy ass and Jaime is damaged goods.

But most Cards fans are insistent that they have to build IMMEDIATELY to compete with Chicago, when they should be looking at the long haul.
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Old 11-16-2016, 01:29 PM   #154
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If the Cards plan on moving those two, it would take that plus to get a player like Cain. Even then, no smart GM is making that move when Adams is a lazy ass and Jaime is damaged goods.



But most Cards fans are insistent that they have to build IMMEDIATELY to compete with Chicago, when they should be looking at the long haul.

Adams and Garcia would be acceptable secondary pieces (maybe not together, necessarily)... what would you view as a reasonable offer from St Louis' side of things for Cain?


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Old 11-16-2016, 01:34 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Adams and Garcia would be acceptable secondary pieces (maybe not together, necessarily)... what would you view as a reasonable offer from St Louis' side of things for Cain?


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From the little I know about Cain as an outsider, he's getting up there in age, has some injury concerns and I worry he won't age well because so much value comes from his speed.

So I'm not sure I'd really be interested in moving for him, but I'd imagine it would take atleast one of those two guys, a b plus prospect and a throw in.

I'm not totally sure. If I were the cardinals general manager (I'm not, applied, over qualified apparently) I would either stand pat and wait for my next wave (they're a ways off, the pitching isn't but the bats are) or look to move some of my plus pitching for a legit young everyday player.

Someone I could pair with Piscotty, grichuk in the outfield and build around.

I admittedly have no clue who that would be.
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Old 11-16-2016, 01:47 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
From the little I know about Cain as an outsider, he's getting up there in age, has some injury concerns and I worry he won't age well because so much value comes from his speed.



So I'm not sure I'd really be interested in moving for him, but I'd imagine it would take atleast one of those two guys, a b plus prospect and a throw in.



I'm not totally sure. If I were the cardinals general manager (I'm not, applied, over qualified apparently) I would either stand pat and wait for my next wave (they're a ways off, the pitching isn't but the bats are) or look to move some of my plus pitching for a legit young everyday player.



Someone I could pair with Piscotty, grichuk in the outfield and build around.



I admittedly have no clue who that would be.

All fair comments. He will be 31 in April or March, so he's at the end of his prime years, probably has one-two years left of top production.

Honestly, I think he has more value for KC than they're going to receive back in trade because of his age, service time, and the injury concern.

If he gives you 140 games, you're likely getting a 4-5 win player who impacts the game with his bat and legs and defense. That was the profile in 2014 and 2015.

There's also the possibility he pops a lower leg injury and misses two months, like he did this year. That's the part that makes a trade most unlikely, IMO.

Garcia + a B+ prospect + a lotto ticket seems about right. That prospect would need to be someone who can contribute in 2017, though. Hard for me to imagine KC moving him for that return and only having a helpful Garcia in 2017.


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Old 11-16-2016, 01:58 PM   #157
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All fair comments. He will be 31 in April or March, so he's at the end of his prime years, probably has one-two years left of top production.

Honestly, I think he has more value for KC than they're going to receive back in trade because of his age, service time, and the injury concern.

If he gives you 140 games, you're likely getting a 4-5 win player who impacts the game with his bat and legs and defense. That was the profile in 2014 and 2015.

There's also the possibility he pops a lower leg injury and misses two months, like he did this year. That's the part that makes a trade most unlikely, IMO.

Garcia + a B+ prospect + a lotto ticket seems about right. That prospect would need to be someone who can contribute in 2017, though. Hard for me to imagine KC moving him for that return and only having a helpful Garcia in 2017.


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Yeah, I just don't think he fits in stl timeframe. If this were the 2013 team? Sure.

At this point, id rather see the cards possibly move peralta and put a package together for a ss, moving diaz to 3rd.

I read something about Simmons but I'd imagine that's a pipe dream.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:02 PM   #158
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Cain doesn't have much trade value given his injuries and his pending FA and his age. That said, who even wants Garcia or Adams? You can get 150 IP of 4.50 FIP from Jason Vargas next year probably, and Adams has no value even as a DH. Garcia has major injury red flags anyway, much worse than Cain. I'll bet he misses more time this year, and he costs 12M anyway.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:05 PM   #159
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Peralta could DH for the royals I suppose.

Frankly, the cards don't have much to trade in terms of vets worth a shit
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:18 PM   #160
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Most likely, both teams are going to rebuild in 2018. And hoping they can win 85 or so games this year before they do.
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Old 11-16-2016, 03:07 PM   #161
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Cain doesn't have much trade value given his injuries and his pending FA and his age. That said, who even wants Garcia or Adams? You can get 150 IP of 4.50 FIP from Jason Vargas next year probably, and Adams has no value even as a DH. Garcia has major injury red flags anyway, much worse than Cain. I'll bet he misses more time this year, and he costs 12M anyway.

I don't think I'd say he doesn't have much... I'd say he doesn't have enough to make it viable for the Royals to trade him.

They're likely to get more for him at the trade deadline than they would in the offseason, if he's healthy and having a good year. I don't think that will happeneither, but we'll see.

The thread that spawned this discussion reads like an almost-Orioles fan-esque trade scenario... packaging broke dicks/spare parts for good players.

Mozeliak made a mistake in holding on to guys like Adams, Wacha, Wong... flawed products of that farm system who played over their heads initially and spiked their value, but who have fallen back to earth.

At one time, Wacha+Wong would have been almost enough to get Carlos Gonzalez from the Rockies. Now, not so much.


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Old 11-16-2016, 03:22 PM   #162
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Eh, Adams sure.

Wacha has been burdened with injuries and Wong has been ****ed around with by an incompetent boob
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Old 11-16-2016, 03:28 PM   #163
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Eh, Adams sure.

Wacha has been burdened with injuries and Wong has been ****ed around with by an incompetent boob
Can't wait to see Wong finally master that home run stroke of his.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:17 PM   #164
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I don't think I'd say he doesn't have much... I'd say he doesn't have enough to make it viable for the Royals to trade him.

They're likely to get more for him at the trade deadline than they would in the offseason, if he's healthy and having a good year. I don't think that will happeneither, but we'll see.

The thread that spawned this discussion reads like an almost-Orioles fan-esque trade scenario... packaging broke dicks/spare parts for good players.

Mozeliak made a mistake in holding on to guys like Adams, Wacha, Wong... flawed products of that farm system who played over their heads initially and spiked their value, but who have fallen back to earth.

At one time, Wacha+Wong would have been almost enough to get Carlos Gonzalez from the Rockies. Now, not so much.


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Cain has quite a bit of value to a team expecting to win now. Like the Rangers, Orioles, Mets, Nats, someone like that. But 1/2 the teams probably wouldn't be all that interested in a one-year guy making some good money (8M or so?). He wouldn't bring back a top-25 prospect, altho some teams might overpay.


At any rate he will have more value to us anyway since we expect to compete next year.
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Old 11-16-2016, 09:53 PM   #165
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Cain has quite a bit of value to a team expecting to win now. Like the Rangers, Orioles, Mets, Nats, someone like that. But 1/2 the teams probably wouldn't be all that interested in a one-year guy making some good money (8M or so?). He wouldn't bring back a top-25 prospect, altho some teams might overpay.


At any rate he will have more value to us anyway since we expect to compete next year.
Yeah. His appeal would be pretty limited in terms of the number of teams, as it is limited to a team that is motivated to make an over-the-top deal before a window closes. His value to those types of teams would be really high, though.

The Nationals and Mets are probably the two biggest matches for KC. I don't think the Cardinals actually match up well at all.

It's conceivable KC and Washington could make a deal happen with Cain and Wade Davis that improves both teams in 2017.

KC would need to get something like Reynaldo Lopez, Erick Fedde, Austin Voth/AJ Cole and Andrew Stevenson back to make that deal, though. And just not sure Washington is willing to pay that sort of price.

Minor update:

It seems like all the Beltran noise is leaning away from KC... Red Sox, Blue Jays, Yankees and Astros are the currently reported leaders for his services. The reunion would be cool, and I think he still has a few great offensive years left in the tank (especially with consistent rest for his legs).

Pretty quiet for KC in general, which isn't a surprise. Most of Moore's moves have either happened in the first few days after the WS or around the Winter Meetings.
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