Re: SNR & everybody who claims that the non-Geno talent atop this draft is "garbage."

[Direckshun]

I recently listed several players that I felt are superior to Geno Smith, all things being equal (including positional value):

Originally Posted by Direckshun

1. OT Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M
2. DE/OLB Bjoern Werner, Florida State
3. DE/OLB Damontre Moore, Texas A&M
4. DE/DT Sheldon Richardson, Missouri
5. DT Star Lotulelei, Utah
6. OT Eric Fisher, Central Michigan
7. CB DeMarcus Milliner, Alabama
8. OT Lane Johnson, Oklahoma
9. DT Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State
10. OG Chance Warmack, Alabama
11. CB Johnathan Banks, Mississippi State
12. DE/OLB Dion Jordan, Oregon
13. S Kenny Vaccaro, Texas.

SNR responded by calling most of them "garbage":

Originally Posted by SNR

We're not drafting at #11 overall. We have the first overall pick.

Are any of those guys the best at their respective positions in their draft classes in the past 5 years?

No? How about 3 years?

TWO YEARS, BRO. Can you give me two goddamned years worth of OTs, DTs, OLBs, and CBs and say that any of those players are at the top of the position?

Well, let's take a look, shall we?

QBs taken in the Top 10 of the past five years:

2012: Luck, RG3, Tannehill
2011: Newton, Locker, Gabbert
2010: Bradford
2009: Stafford, Sanchez
2008: Matt Ryan

Top 10 OTs of the past five years:

2012: Kalil
2011: Tyron Smith
2010: Trent Williams, Russell Okung (Anthony Davis @ #11)
2009: Jason Smith, Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe
2008: Jake Long

Passrushers taken in the Top 10 of the past five years:

2012: none
2011: Von Miller, Aldon Smith (Watt @ #11)
2010: none
2009: none (Aaron Maybin @ #11)
2008: Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Derrick Harvey

DTs taken in the top 10 the past five years:

2012: none (Poe @ #11)
2011: Marcell Dareus
2010: Suh, Gerald McCoy, Tyson Alualu
2009: Tyson Jackson, BJ Raji
2008: Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis

(I don't care about CBs or OGs. You don't take them #1 overall.)

Now, the key here is to try to remember each of these players as prospects, not as the players we know they are now.

At QB, who was a worse prospect than Geno of the above players?

1. Luck
2-tie. RG3/Stafford
3. Ryan
4-tie. Bradford/Sanchez
5. Newton
6. Gabbert
7. Smith
8. Tannehill
9. Locker

At OT, who was a worse prospect than Joeckel, Fisher, or Lane Johnson?

The way I would have ordered them as prospects:

1. Long
2. Okung
3. Williams
4-tie. Joeckel/Kalil
5. Fisher
6. Jason Smith
7-tie. Andre Smith/Monroe/Lane Johnson
8. Tyron Smith

At passrusher, who was a worse prospect than Werner, Moore, or Jordan?

1. Miller
2. Chris Long
3. Aldon Smith
4-tie. Gholston/Werner
5. Moore
6. Harvey
7. Jordan

At DT, who was a worse prospect than Richardson or Hankins? (Star is apparently out of commission as a top 10 pick now.)

1. Suh
2. McCoy
3. Dorsey
4. Dareus
5. Raji
6. Richardson
7-tie. Ellis/Hankins
8. Tyson Jackson
9. Alualu

Now on to my broader point here:

This is how I would rank them as prospects as of now. Of course you could adjust your rankings all over the place.

But the myth that Geno Smith is on par with what we've seen in the past while the other three categories are horrendous nightmares compared to your "usual draft," is just that: a myth.

[wazu]

SNR is right, and Direkshun is dumb.

[Hootie]

let me put it this way

if Peyton Manning signed with KC last year I bet we could have gotten 800+ yards out of Baldwin and/or possibly McCluster.

our embarrassing QB play makes every one of our "skill" players look way shittier than they actually are.

do I think, at this point, McCluster is good? No. I don't. I have no idea what to think about Baldwin other than think that he's probably destined to be a bust as well.

but none of these ****ing guys...even Bowe last year...had the benefit of playing with a QB that had any ****ing clue how to play QB.

the only reason Bowe had some numbers is because Cassel literally threw it to him every time...it was hilarious. Cassel would stare him down and throw it to him no matter what. It almost made no sense when I was watching...

and then Quinn comes in and starts targeting Baldwin a ton...and even Moeaki on our play-action that surprised everyone because we literally had to run the ball every ****ing down because of how terrible Cassel/Quinn were...

the fact that we even have to argue or listen to anyone say we shouldn't draft Smith makes no sense to me...

if Dorsey/Reid **** this up it is just a huge strike and I don't think I could forgive them

[MagicHef]

Whoa. Stafford joined the Lions at the same time Cassel joined the Chiefs, 2009. In that timespan, the Chiefs have won more games.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Peyton's Princess

after that performance anything other than Geno at #1 is going to piss me right the **** off...

it literally makes no sense not to draft Geno Smith.

This shit franchise has the easiest ****ing decisions in the world to make. Re-sign Bowe, re-sign Albert...draft Smith.

We could literally forfeit the rest of our draft if we got Smith and I know this entire board would still be thrilled.

Yep.

[Hootie]

Stafford also has terrible mechanics. Did Stafford even throw at the combine?

I think Stafford still has potential to be great but he really took a step backwards this year and he is the poster boy of inconsistency.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Whoa. Stafford joined the Lions at the same time Cassel joined the Chiefs, 2009. In that timespan, the Chiefs have won more games.

We are living in the darkest timeline.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Gabbert surprised almost everybody on this board when he slid to #10. The Jaguars trading for him was considered a huge success.

But it doesn't matter -- you can disagree with my rankings.

I'm not shitting on a Geno pick. I'm just saying the idea that he is the only sensible selection at #1 because all the other players are "garbage" is SNR, overplaying his hand.

I think my statement is getting slightly warped in your hands.

My entire point was when you have the #1 overall pick, you have to find the player that's going to get you the most wins. You need to think sabremetrically, not in terms of where a player stacks up on a list of other players at different positions. If you have a logjam at a position, you need to make a pretty damn convincing case that the guy you select is so good that he'll overcome that roster crunch and win out be being a beast.

We have team needs at QB, ILB, CB, and WR if we're just looking at the spots that are WIDE OPEN. ILB is very difficult to argue at the #1 overall, so let's just cross that off the list. Milliner is hardly a special player; we won't hurt if we pass on him. Let's cross off CB. WR is tempting, but just for the sake of argument, let's cross that one off too, if anything simply because I don't see AJ Green or Calvin Johnson this year.

Now, the other available positions have to overcome not only being behind in positional value to QB, but they have to feature players that are just so damn good that they can take over that position on the team and start raping. These are the generational talents. And I don't see any. A Werner, Moore is going to get lost behind our two starters. Richardson, Lotulelei, and other DTs have question marks just as much as other DL prospects we've taken in the past.

Is Geno Smith possibly a pretty good starting NFL QB? Absolutely. Barkley? Yes, but I think less so. That's a different conversation.

That's my math. That's my math on why it's QB or bust FOR THE KANSAS CITY CHIEFS.

[Hootie]

does anyone realize a few years ago we were all like 'Clady is kind of overrated' and then Manning comes in and does what Peyton Manning does and makes EVERYONE around him look SO MUCH BETTER...

Kyle Orton made our (according to some) shitty line look just fine a few years ago. Cassel made our line look like dogshit...because he's dogshit and makes everyone around him worse.

Albert/Asamoah/Hudson/Allen/Winston is an above average NFL line. We have invested more than enough into that line and it is a good, solid, effective line with potential to grow as well.

I mean, there is literally NO ONE ELSE to draft at #1 other than Smith.

So either the Chiefs should let the clock expire and wait for other teams to sprint to the podium with their picks and pick around 9 or 10 OR JUST DO THE ONE LOGICAL THING AND DRAFT GENO SMITH AND GIVE HIM HIS 4 YEARS AND 25 MILLION.

that's a ****ing bargain

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Welcome to rationality.

As of February 24th, 2013, we are officially having the conversation we need to be having.

**** you.

[Al Bundy]

Originally Posted by GoWalrus

Winning going on here.

[Crush]

1. OT Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M - Most overrated tackle since Tony Mandarich. This guy has bust written all over him.
2. DE/OLB Bjoern Werner, Florida State - Doesn't play QB.
3. DE/OLB Damontre Moore, Texas A&M - Doesn't play QB.
4. DE/DT Sheldon Richardson, Missouri - Shitty work ethic and a shitty person to boot. He'll be out of the league within four years.
5. DT Star Lotulelei, Utah - Shitty heart.
6. OT Eric Fisher, Central Michigan - We already have Brandon Albert.
7. CB DeMarcus Milliner, Alabama - Doesn't play QB.
8. OT Lane Johnson, Oklahoma - Doesn't play QB.
9. DT Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State - Doesn't play QB.
10. OG Chance Warmack, Alabama - A ****ing guard? GTFO with that shit.
11. CB Johnathan Banks, Mississippi State - Doesn't play QB.
12. DE/OLB Dion Jordan, Oregon - Doesn't play QB.
13. S Kenny Vaccaro, Texas. - Doesn't play QB.

At no. 1, we have the unique ability to select anyone that we want. You pick the QB and THEN build the team around him. This franchise is 3-12 in playoff games since Super Bowl IV. Two of those wins came in the same ****ing season. It is time this franchise tries something else.

Don't give me that "draft a QB in the 2nd" bullshit. Geno, Wilson, and Barkley will be taken in the top 10. Until we get a QB, everything else is garbage.

[Crush]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

all things being equal (including positional value)

This is absolute bullshit. The QB is more important than every other position.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by RunKC

If Stafford was at the combine right now, he'd be owning Geno. Better size for the position, pro-style success in the toughest conference with the best defenses.

You can not tell me that Geno would stand a ****ing chance against Stafford in the passing drills. Stafford has a ****ing cannon and solid accuracy.

COMING OUT OF COLLEGE:

Geno Smith:

-Takes better care of the ball (Stafford had tons of WTF? throws at Georgia)
-Is more athletic
-Makes better decisions
-Has better touch
-Has a snappier release
-Is more durable

Matt Stafford:

-Bigger arm. Much bigger arm.
-Pro system QB going up against SEC competition every week
-Better footwork than Geno
-People mostly questioned his decision-making and consistency, but that's about it

Stafford was ABSOLUTELY worth the #1 overall pick. I'm not even arguing that. And seeing what he is in the NFL vs. what I'm banking on with Geno, I would trade for Stafford with the #1 overall pick than use it on Geno. But that's simply because I have the benefit of seeing what he does in the pros. I have determined it's good enough for the Chiefs.

I think Geno can be better than him. I think better lower body control from his drop backs (exactly what he's been working on at IMG) along with continued coaching from an excellent QB staff could turn him into a better pro QB than Stafford.

If you gave me a Stafford clone coming out of this 2013 college class and Geno, I would rather have Geno.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Whoa. Stafford joined the Lions at the same time Cassel joined the Chiefs, 2009. In that timespan, the Chiefs have won more games.

Ouch, you're right.

Geno it is!

[Hammock Parties]

YOU HAVE ANGERED LORD GENO, YOUR SOUL IS FORFEIT