Mad Men

[Reaper16]

Season 4 premiered tonight. I would have bumped the season three thread but I titled it "season 3," which no longer seems appropriate.

Who saw it? It was a stupendous hour of television. All sorts of shit has happened in the eleven months that have passed (in-story) between the formation of Sterling Cooper Draper Price and the beginning of season 4. The premeir was stepped in the juices of the sexual revolution. It also had a lot to say about the increasing role of the media in the success or failure of things. It was great to see Don fail a little bit, and it was exciting to consider the future implications at the end of Don crafting a public/media persona that is completely unlike his actual personality.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Spoiler!

I am very, very confident that Peggy will remain an important part of the show. Maybe she has a diminished role next season, only to come back in a big way the following season.

Mad Men is as much about Peggy as it is Don. She's the show's moral center and its most relateable, likable character. Mad Men would be a significantly worse show without her.

Which is why I don't think for one second that she's going away.

Spoiler!

I know this will sound toolish, but Whitlock was forecasting (perhaps not seriously, though) that Peggy / Don are meant to end up together, and if one thinks this way then Peggy's departure from SCDP is the set up for this in that she'd always be subordinate unless she were at another firm. Just a thought/

[Pushead2]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

Spoiler!

I know this will sound toolish, but Whitlock was forecasting (perhaps not seriously, though) that Peggy / Don are meant to end up together, and if one thinks this way then Peggy's departure from SCDP is the set up for this in that she'd always be subordinate unless she were at another firm. Just a thought/

I don't like the sound of this....

Spoiler!

Elisabeth Moss said Peggy "has the capability of being a Don Draper, and there can't be two of them in the office."[3] The goodbye scene between Don and Peggy was a difficult one to shoot.[3] Moss said, "That scene was a really, really tough scene to do. They didn't tell me they were going to do this, but they told Jon to hold my hand and not let it go. Then he did, and I lost it. Every single one of those tears were absolutely real. She wants to stay with all of her heart. She does not want to leave, but she knows she has to."[3] Hamm said there was "respect, understanding, and admiration between those two characters. This is the exact right time for her to leave.

[1moreTRich]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

My concern isn't with

Spoiler!

Peggy leaving the agency. I trust the writers there. My concern is that, arguably, the partners of SCDP didn't act like themselves when they agreed to ask Joan to prostitute herself. I'm still undecided as to if the characters acted out-of-character for the purposes of the plot. If so, it'd be the show's first major misstep

Spoiler!

I think the juxtaposition of Joan in the conference room during the celebration to Peggy leaving was phenomenal. The old way and the new way that women are valuable in the business world. The door opening and Peggy's smile and Joan's (more subtle) but still obvious stride through the men on the way to the conference room. The women have arrived. Poor Don Draper, can't control anything anymore.

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

My concern isn't with

Spoiler!

Peggy leaving the agency. I trust the writers there. My concern is that, arguably, the partners of SCDP didn't act like themselves when they agreed to ask Joan to prostitute herself. I'm still undecided as to if the characters acted out-of-character for the purposes of the plot. If so, it'd be the show's first major misstep

Don't know wtf is going on with the spoiler-fest in here, but I think that they've been trying to show Pete Campbell snake his way into the more important decision making, and he's finally broken through. It took a while, but it happened. Don't think it was jump the shark at all.

[Kyle DeLexus]

Originally Posted by Buck

Don't know wtf is going on with the spoiler-fest in here, but I think that they've been trying to show Pete Campbell snake his way into the more important decision making, and he's finally broken through. It took a while, but it happened. Don't think it was jump the shark at all.

This was my thought on it as well. Also the fact that Pete had already approached Joan before the meeting made the outcome realistic. If he hadn't talked to her it would have been no's all around, but since Pete had laid the ground work it was "I'm shocked, I'm appalled, you take care of it."

[Demonpenz]

The "Regroup" smirk/smile when Pete had his back towards joan was classic mad men.

[DJ's left nut]

A) I don't much care for Peggy, so I don't much mind that she's leaving. I've made my opinion w/r/t her known, so I think the show will be fine without her.

B) Those that do like Peggy have to want her to leave. When she told Don that she knew it's what he would do, she was exactly right. SCDP will never not have Don in charge of creative. Peggy, as headstrong and proud as she is, absolutely believes she could be that person in charge of creative someday. She's blocked at SCDP and was given a chance to make a ton of money and take a clear promotion to a clear path at superstardom at a new agency.

Peggy staying at SCDP would have been what Reaper was concerned about - characters acting outside of their character. This was clearly the Peggy move and the right one for her to make.

I don't know how they can keep her as a significant part of the show without losing a great deal of time that would be spent on the development of the agency. There are only so many broadcast minutes and they can't be spent trying to spin a story along with a 2nd agency.

I think Peggy's gone.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I don't know how they can keep her as a significant part of the show without losing a great deal of time that would be spent on the development of the agency. There are only so many broadcast minutes and they can't be spent trying to spin a story along with a 2nd agency.

Get rid of the Betty subplots and fill those minutes with Peggy subplots.

If Peggy is gone for good, they're going to have to give the audience a new voice. Maybe Don changes? Maybe Joan shifts? I don't know. But, I think, it's too late to introduce a new "Peggy."

And I just can't see the show leaving the audience voiceless for long.

But I agree that it was the right move at the right time. As much as I hate to see her leave SCDP, she had to. I get it. And I'm proud of her. But I can't see her being gone (from the show) for good.

At the very least, surely, we would have heard by now if Elizabeth Moss was leaving the show, right? Be pretty impressive to keep that under wraps.

[Thig Lyfe]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

If Peggy is gone for good, they're going to have to give the audience a new voice.

Ginsberg?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

Get rid of the Betty subplots and fill those minutes with Peggy subplots.

If Peggy is gone for good, they're going to have to give the audience a new voice. Maybe Don changes? Maybe Joan shifts? I don't know. But, I think, it's too late to introduce a new "Peggy."

And I just can't see the show leaving the audience voiceless for long.

But I agree that it was the right move at the right time. As much as I hate to see her leave SCDP, she had to. I get it. And I'm proud of her. But I can't see her being gone (from the show) for good.

At the very least, surely, we would have heard by now if Elizabeth Moss was leaving the show, right? Be pretty impressive to keep that under wraps.

I suppose you could get rid of the Betty subplots by having Sally finally kill her. There's your plot twist, eh?

Starting to wonder if ol' Lane isn't gonna be the one to get bumped off. I wouldn't really care that much; Lane's a special sort of slime. He's essentially a sneakier version of Roger. Roger is just out in the open with his proclivities, whereas Lane is a manipulative little prick with the same personal shortcomings and none of the gravitas to own them.

[Reaper16]

I'll put money down that Peggy isn't gone from the show. She's an integral part of the show. A goddamned pillar.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I suppose you could get rid of the Betty subplots by having Sally finally kill her. There's your plot twist, eh?

Starting to wonder if ol' Lane isn't gonna be the one to get bumped off. I wouldn't really care that much; Lane's a special sort of slime. He's essentially a sneakier version of Roger. Roger is just out in the open with his proclivities, whereas Lane is a manipulative little prick with the same personal shortcomings and none of the gravitas to own them.

I'm cutting Lane a little slack. I did some reading and at the time of this episode, British citizens paid as much as 83% in taxes to the Crown. Plus a possible 15% more in unearned income PLUS capital gains. Plus Lane would be paying US taxes as well. He's really in a hole.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

I'm cutting Lane a little slack. I did some reading and at the time of this episode, British citizens paid as much as 83% in taxes to the Crown. Plus a possible 15% more in unearned income PLUS capital gains. Plus Lane would be paying US taxes as well. He's really in a hole.

Plus he loves cheap horror movies and a big ass steak.

[Red Brooklyn]

If I were a betting man... and I'm not... and I'm usually wrong about these things... I'd say Peggy is still a part of the show moving forward, and that, yes, Lane will probably end up dead by the end of this season.

I told my wife after the last episode that I really didn't have a good feeling about Lane. I like Lane, but he's desperate.

Frankly, I'd love to see Sally off Betty. I don't care how uncharacteristic it might be!

But, seriously, I'm not sure why Betty is still a part of the show. She's been largely absent this season and I haven't missed her.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

If I were a betting man... and I'm not... and I'm usually wrong about these things... I'd say Peggy is still a part of the show moving forward, and that, yes, Lane will probably end up dead by the end of this season.

I told my wife after the last episode that I really didn't have a good feeling about Lane. I like Lane, but he's desperate.

Frankly, I'd love to see Sally off Betty. I don't care how uncharacteristic it might be!

But, seriously, I'm not sure why Betty is still a part of the show. She's been largely absent this season and I haven't missed her.

Any chance Peggy comes back as a partner?