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Old 05-10-2014, 12:03 PM  
Hammock Parties Hammock Parties is online now
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Should the minimum wage be raised to $20/hr?

Seems like that would provided everyone with a comfortable living.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...e1-2012-03.pdf

Quote:
Using wages as a benchmark, in 1968 the federal minimum stood at 53 percent of the average production worker earnings. During much of the
1960s, the minimum wage was close to 50 percent of the same wage
benchmark. If the minimum wage were at 50 percent of the production
worker wage in 2012 (again, using CBO projections to produce a full-year
2012 estimate), the federal minimum would be $10.01 per hour.

A final benchmark for the minimum wage is productivity growth. Figure
2 below compares growth in average labor productivity with the real
value of the minimum wage between the late 1940s and the end of the
last decade. Between the end of World War II and 1968, the minimum
wage tracked average productivity growth fairly closely.

Since 1968, however, productivity growth has far outpaced the minimum wage. If the minimum wage had continued to move with average productivity after 1968, it would have reached $21.72 per hour in 2012 – a rate well above the average production worker wage. If minimum-wage workers received only half of the productivity gains over the period, the federal minimum would be $15.34. Even if the minimum wage only grew at one-fourth the rate of productivity, in 2012 it would be set at $12.25.
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:36 PM   #241
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The problem is not the wage its the dollar. The OP shows how sad it has become.
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Old 07-23-2014, 01:52 PM   #242
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Why can't the minimum wage people convince the Chinese of the need for implementing it?

While there at it, they can take a few carbon footprint people along for the ride as well.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:38 PM   #243
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How about we put CEOs on minimum wage since their salary seems to be completely random vs. their performance?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/..._s_a_sham.html



Amazing. Hey poors - just get your cronies to set on your governance committees to set your wages for you. EZ game. But in the meantime this is why we can't pay you any more, sorry.

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Old 07-23-2014, 10:46 PM   #244
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Suzzer,

Why do you feel that you should be able to dictate to someone how much money they can make?

I am for everybody making as much money as they wish as long as they do it without theft, violence, and fraud. Why aren't you?
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:12 PM   #245
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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Why do you put words in my mouth? I'm not dictating anything to anyone, just pointing out how surreally ridiculous CEO pay is in this country right now (obviously paying CEOs min. wage was facetious).

What's happening right now in this country with CEO pay has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with crony capitalism. Ultimately in the US, and any country that can't get the army to turn on it's own people, it's the people that have the power. This has been true since the Magna Carta. If the US keeps heading towards 3rd world levels of income inequality, there's going to be an ugly revolution at some point.

It would behoove the elites to reign themselves in and maybe support policies that reverse the current trend in income and opportunity inequality. Many of them get this. Some don't.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:25 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Why do you put words in my mouth? I'm not dictating anything to anyone, just pointing out how surreally ridiculous CEO pay is in this country right now (obviously paying CEOs min. wage was facetious).
What's happening right now in this country with CEO pay has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with crony capitalism. Ultimately in the US, and any country that can't get the army to turn on it's own people, it's the people that have the power. This has been true since the Magna Carta. If the US keeps heading towards 3rd world levels of income inequality, there's going to be an ugly revolution at some point.
It would behoove the elites to reign themselves in and maybe support policies that reverse the current trend in income and opportunity inequality. Many of them get this. Some don't.
"Let them eat cake...."

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Old 07-24-2014, 07:44 AM   #247
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If only the French Aristocrats had a slick media machine that got people to continually vote against their own best interests out of fear that others lower on the social ladder were getting free handouts…
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:58 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Suzzer,

Why do you feel that you should be able to dictate to someone how much money they can make?

I am for everybody making as much money as they wish as long as they do it without theft, violence, and fraud. Or powerful connections to govt. Why aren't you?
FYP for one more addition.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:59 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearcat2005 View Post
The problem is not the wage its the dollar. The OP shows how sad it has become.
And the fact that the Fed's money printing inflates the value of the assets of those better off while creating artificial incentives to get richer than they would if that wasn't done. Cartel banking aiding other cartels and govt connected corps.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:09 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
You have to understand the RWNJ mind. The perceived belief that someone lower than you on the social ladder might be getting free handouts trumps all reason and logic. Emotionally manipulative propaganda is powerful stuff.

Nevermind that the min. wage is at a 40 year historical low and there's zero empirical evidence that it kills jobs and a lot of good evidence that it puts upward pressure on the wages of anyone not in the global elite. Dammit that chick at the Long John Silver's drive-thru who always forgets my extra tartar sauce doesn't deserve more than minimum wage! I don't need fancy charts and graphs to know that.

Nevermind that every other developed nation on earth has some form of UHC and spends half what we do on healthcare per capita. People poorer than me are getting subsidies!

Now get me my knife so I can cut off my nose to spite my face.
This is kind of where I stand.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:26 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Why do you put words in my mouth? I'm not dictating anything to anyone, just pointing out how surreally ridiculous CEO pay is in this country right now (obviously paying CEOs min. wage was facetious).

What's happening right now in this country with CEO pay has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with crony capitalism. Ultimately in the US, and any country that can't get the army to turn on it's own people, it's the people that have the power. This has been true since the Magna Carta. If the US keeps heading towards 3rd world levels of income inequality, there's going to be an ugly revolution at some point.

It would behoove the elites to reign themselves in and maybe support policies that reverse the current trend in income and opportunity inequality. Many of them get this. Some don't.
The argument for a higher minimum wage would seem less dishonest if well it was, well, less dishonest. Why do we constantly go back to 1968? Oh because it is the highest standard of living it ever provided. The wage in 1968 is equivalent to a little under $11 per hour today. When the minimum wage was implemented in the 1930’s it was $00.25 per hour which is equivalent to slightly over $4.00 per hour. It would be no less dishonest for the right to argue that we should lower the rate to $4.00 an hour because that is what it was in the 30’s than it is for the left to demand $11-$15 an hour because that is what it was in the 60’s. It is a nice way to rile up the voters and make them feel taken advantage of but it really doesn’t mean anything.

I would be far more interested in the wages of the average John Q public folks. The $35-60K middle class . These are the guys still working after the downsizing during the recession for pretty much the same wages as they were but, they are now doing what was 2 or 3 peoples jobs. These are the people who are probably actually being taken advantage of.

What I think we need, is to get the economy going to the point where companies actually need to compete for the employee’s services and need to pay more to get and retain the good ones.


I apologize for dropping a turd and leaving but I got to get some work done
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:47 PM   #252
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I would support a significant minimum wage increase if it come coupled with a reduction in food stamp and welfare programs.

The reasoning behind that is to get people to go back to work and that their increased wages would counter the loss of these programs. *obviously* the truly needy people that are unable to work, will continue to get these benefits.

There should be no reason that half of the population (I'm not sure the exact numbers) that are dependent on government assistance.
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:53 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
I would support a significant minimum wage increase if it come coupled with a reduction in food stamp and welfare programs.

The reasoning behind that is to get people to go back to work and that their increased wages would counter the loss of these programs. *obviously* the truly needy people that are unable to work, will continue to get these benefits.

There should be no reason that half of the population (I'm not sure the exact numbers) that are dependent on government assistance.
There would be no "if".

An increase in the minimum wage WOULD cause a decrease in social program spending. Minimum wage is so low you still qualify for food stamps working full time. Ensuring the minimum wage allows for full time workers to earn a salary above the federal poverty line would thus decrease the amount of people able to receive food stamps.

You are right, there is no reason people who work should earn so little they qualify for food stamps, but then again, we socialize the losses, privatize the profits in this country.
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:21 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
The argument for a higher minimum wage would seem less dishonest if well it was, well, less dishonest. Why do we constantly go back to 1968? Oh because it is the highest standard of living it ever provided. The wage in 1968 is equivalent to a little under $11 per hour today. When the minimum wage was implemented in the 1930’s it was $00.25 per hour which is equivalent to slightly over $4.00 per hour. It would be no less dishonest for the right to argue that we should lower the rate to $4.00 an hour because that is what it was in the 30’s than it is for the left to demand $11-$15 an hour because that is what it was in the 60’s. It is a nice way to rile up the voters and make them feel taken advantage of but it really doesn’t mean anything.

I would be far more interested in the wages of the average John Q public folks. The $35-60K middle class . These are the guys still working after the downsizing during the recession for pretty much the same wages as they were but, they are now doing what was 2 or 3 peoples jobs. These are the people who are probably actually being taken advantage of.

What I think we need, is to get the economy going to the point where companies actually need to compete for the employee’s services and need to pay more to get and retain the good ones.


I apologize for dropping a turd and leaving but I got to get some work done
A minimum wage hike absolutely puts upward pressure on someone making $35-60k.

Also here's a fun chart:
http://www.dol.gov/minwage/minwage-gdp-history.htm

Over time, real GDP per capita has steadily increased, even when the minimum wage has been raised


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Old 07-25-2014, 09:47 AM   #255
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“A minimum wage hike absolutely puts upward pressure on someone making $35-60k.”


Do you think that would be due to an increase in the cost of goods and services lowering the purchasing power of those 35-60 K people or some other reason?
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