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Old 09-19-2015, 09:34 PM  
rabblerouser rabblerouser is offline
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Jeremiah Trotter thinks Andy Reid got out-coached in a lot of games

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-lot-of-games/

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Originally Posted by Michael David Smith View Post
*by Michael David Smith on January 4, 2013, 8:16 AM EDT

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Jeremiah Trotter played a total of seven seasons for Andy Reid in three different stints with the Eagles. And he thinks he lost a lot of games because Reid got out-coached.

“If it came down to both teams were even, talent-wise,*I think the opponent’s team would win if it came down to coaching,” Trotter said on 97.5 The Fanatic, via Philly.com. “Andy Reid got out-coached in a lot of games, man, a lot of big games,” Trotter continued. “Time outs, running the football, you know.”

Trotter said Reid’s offensive style made things different for the defense and the late defensive coordinator Jim Johnson, who ran the defense in Philadelphia until his death in 2008.

“As a defense, we understood we passed the ball too much. You know, there’s times we’re sitting over there like, ‘Man, listen. Just get us a couple of first downs so we can get a break.’ And I’m sure it frustrated Jim Johnson also,” Trotter said

Still, Trotter acknowledges that he won a lot of games during his time with Reid, and he says he would have given Reid a 7.5 or 8 on a scale of 1-10. I shudder to think what he’d say about a coach who was a 1.
Good coaches don't get out coached in a lot of games.
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Old 09-20-2015, 12:27 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by tk13 View Post
Evidence shows? What are you, Matlock? What evidence is that?

I agree, Jim Johnson was a great defensive coordinator and the Eagles were not a better team after he died. But they had a top 10 offense most years. They were good teams. You don't have that kind of sustained run without being a good team on every side of the ball. And Reid was the guy who made all the football decisions and hired Jim Johnson in the first place. The excuses this places make for success are ridiculous.
Reid w/Johnson :

Reg season :
97-62-1
Playoffs :
10-7

Reid w/o Johnson :
Reg season :
53-44
Playoffs :
0-3

I rest my case.
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Old 09-20-2015, 12:35 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by rabblerouser View Post
This is my whole point :

Either he's a terrible coach or he throws games on purpose.

Pick one.
He is neither. He is one of the best coaches in the NFL. They did NOT lose to Denver because of Andy Reid. They lost because of 5 turnovers. People forget just how bad this team was before he got here.
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Old 09-20-2015, 12:45 AM   #48
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If reid is one of the best, nfl coaching is at a definite low point. The guy routinely blows games with complete unawareness of the situation. I realize the chiefs had to have a name coach in their situation at the time, but reid was and is a guy who is known for melting down in tight situations. There's no debate about it.
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Old 09-20-2015, 12:46 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabblerouser View Post
Reid w/Johnson :

Reg season :
97-62-1
Playoffs :
10-7

Reid w/o Johnson :
Reg season :
53-44
Playoffs :
0-3

I rest my case.
I just said this. Their best years were with Jim Johnson. No one is disputing that.

Who hired Jim Johnson? Who gave him pay raises to make him one of the highest paid coordinators in the league?

You're legitimately trying to argue that Andy Reid is a bad coach because he hired good assistant coaches? Is this for real?
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Old 09-20-2015, 12:48 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
If reid is one of the best, nfl coaching is at a definite low point. The guy routinely blows games with complete unawareness of the situation. I realize the chiefs had to have a name coach in their situation at the time, but reid was and is a guy who is known for melting down in tight situations. There's no debate about it.
Despite the meltdown here we did not lose to Denver because of Reid. Take away two of the five turnovers and this place would be talking about how good he is.

bunch of ****ing drama queens here.
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Old 09-20-2015, 12:52 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by splatbass View Post
Despite the meltdown here we did not lose to Denver because of Reid.
He certainly didn't do anything to help. He displayed his usual lack of situational awareness at various times in the game and his playcalling is getting really predictable.
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Old 09-20-2015, 01:05 AM   #52
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His playcalling has always been predictable. He hasn't changed in 17 years. His offense is get guys in space, stretch the field horizontally, let your speed make plays. Use the short passing game as a substitute for the running game. Throw tons of passes to the RBs. That's what we signed up for.

But that said, he's won a ton of games. And not just a Marty-ish career... very few down years, numerous playoff appearances and wins. I'm not sure there are that many current coaches with better resumes. Belichick obviously. Carroll. John Harbaugh? Maybe Sean Payton? Coughlin at one time, but maybe not present day. Very few of these guys have done it consistently for almost two decades though.

Of course that doesn't mean squat going forward for the Chiefs, but this thread is debating whether he was a bad coach in Philly.
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:51 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock View Post
If reid is one of the best, nfl coaching is at a definite low point. The guy routinely blows games with complete unawareness of the situation. I realize the chiefs had to have a name coach in their situation at the time, but reid was and is a guy who is known for melting down in tight situations. There's no debate about it.
And there it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by splatbass View Post
Despite the meltdown here we did not lose to Denver because of Reid. Take away two of the five turnovers and this place would be talking about how good he is.

bunch of ****ing drama queens here.
I am getting genuinely goddamned tired of watching this cavalcade of excuse-makers for this organization. If the Chiefs were an employee of a company, they would be long-fired and forgotten at this point.

Or, in plain English:

The "good" is NOT outweighing the bad.
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Old 09-20-2015, 08:49 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams View Post
And there it was.



I am getting genuinely goddamned tired of watching this cavalcade of excuse-makers for this organization. If the Chiefs were an employee of a company, they would be long-fired and forgotten at this point.

Or, in plain English:

The "good" is NOT outweighing the bad.
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Old 09-20-2015, 08:54 AM   #55
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Old 09-20-2015, 09:05 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by tk13 View Post
His playcalling has always been predictable. He hasn't changed in 17 years.
This, and this is all that matters.

It doesn't matter if you're predictable conservative like Marty or predictable risky like Mike Martz, it's bad. It leads to giving up an edge. It gives an advantage.
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Old 09-20-2015, 09:16 AM   #57
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Old 09-20-2015, 10:08 AM   #58
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This, and this is all that matters.

It doesn't matter if you're predictable conservative like Marty or predictable risky like Mike Martz, it's bad. It leads to giving up an edge. It gives an advantage.
I meant more generally. They even talked the other night how Reid likes to throw plays you've never seen into the first 15 plays.

But in general, you know he's going to run a short pass happy offense. But that's true with almost everyone. You know the Ravens are going to chuck it deep over and over, you know the Broncos and Patriots will run lots of picks, you know the Seahawks will run the ball a lot to set up the playaction passes. You just have to execute.
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Old 09-20-2015, 10:36 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock View Post
If reid is one of the best, nfl coaching is at a definite low point. The guy routinely blows games with complete unawareness of the situation. I realize the chiefs had to have a name coach in their situation at the time, but reid was and is a guy who is known for melting down in tight situations. There's no debate about it.
NFL head coaches have always been "bad", which is why so many are fired and hired each year. And the reason for this is simple:

There is only so much one man can do from the sidelines.

Players have to execute. Plain and simple. When players execute, teams win, which makes head coaches look "great". When players don't execute, head coaches look like fools, allowing everyone to criticize.

Reid has won far more games than he's lost, making him a good head coach. He's definitely one of the best at game planning and scheming. He does his "thing" well but once it's off script, he has as many problems as anyone else in the league, which is why you'll always hear commentators say "He just needs to stick with the game plan".

I can't believe that anyone thought that Kubiak "out coached" Reid. If so, that's a joke. The Chiefs didn't execute and turned over the ball five times.

That's why they lost.
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Old 09-20-2015, 10:40 AM   #60
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I can't believe that anyone thought that Kubiak "out coached" Reid. If so, that's a joke. The Chiefs didn't execute and turned over the ball five times.

That's why they lost.
Exactly. Kubiak's coaching was so bad it appears that Manning started ignoring him and running his own offense.
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