KCStar NFL Draft: Picking their brains

elvomito · 04:04 AM

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...l/11435557.htm

One man claims to forecast success from profiles
By JON WILNER
San Jose Mercury News

In their pre-draft evaluations of quarterbacks Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers, the 49ers' brass have sought advice from a wide range of coaches, scouts, trainers and doctors.

But the 49ers have not consulted with the man who decoded the Peyton Manning-Ryan Leaf Draft Debate of 1998, the man who claims to have unique insight into the way athletes move and think, the man known as ``The Brain Doctor.''

His diagnosis?

``The 49ers are nuts for not contacting me,'' Jonathan Niednagel said last week. ``Each of those guys has an inborn brain type, and that will dramatically affect the way they play.''

Niednagel is not a doctor; he was a finance major in college. But he has spent two decades studying how brain circuitry affects performance and gets paid six figures by professional sports teams for advice on potential draft picks and free-agent signees.

He believes, for instance, that there's an ideal brain type for quarterbacks: ESTP, an acronym for extroverted, sensing, thinking, perceiving. Joe Montana is an ESTP. So are John Elway, Brett Favre, Dan Marino and Manning. They live for the moment and aren't fazed by their own mistakes. When the stakes are highest, they think as logically as Mr. Spock.

``Under pressure, you localize to the area of the brain where you are strongest,'' said Niednagel (pronounced NEED-noggle). ``Guys like Montana and Favre, they are thinkers.''

So what about the hard-wiring of the quarterbacks at the top of the 49ers' draft board?

Based on a preliminary analysis, Niednagel said, neither Smith nor Rodgers is an ESTP. That doesn't necessarily mean they're destined for failure. Tom Brady isn't an ESTP, either. But he's perfectly suited for the team New England Patriots Coach Bill Belichick has built around him.

``If you put Brady with another squad, there's no way he would have developed the way he has,'' Niednagel said. ``He's not a guy who, if you let him do the Brett Favre-freelance thing, he's going to be effective. But he's with a coach who is very structured and knows how to use him.''

Niednagel made a nickname for himself during the '98 draft. After Indianapolis picked Manning No. 1, Niednagel turned to San Diego Chargers General Manager Bobby Beathard and explained that Leaf was not hard-wired to be an NFL quarterback. The Chargers took Leaf anyway, and three years later he was out of the league.

``I wish we had had more exposure to Jon at the time, so we would have put more weight on his evaluation,'' Beathard told the Albany (N.Y.) Times Union last year. ``He was right.''

Beathard's view isn't shared by all. Terry Sandbek, a clinic psychologist from Sacramento, compared brain typing to ``astrology.''

``There's no validity and no reliability,'' Sandbek said, ``and those are the gold standards in the scientific community.''

Niednagel, 57, has no hard science in his background. He grew up in Evansville, Ind., attended Westmont College in Santa Barbara and said he graduated from Long Beach State, although the Mercury News was unable to confirm his degree.

After college, he coached Pop Warner football and noticed a direct correlation between motor skills and personality. In 1983, he founded Type Dynamics, which became the Brain Type Institute in the early '90s. He runs a Web site (braintypes.com), is the author of several books and has been profiled by ESPN, Sports Illustrated and Fox Sports.

His theories are based on the brain-typing method first proposed by Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung and popularized by the Myers-Briggs personality test. According to Katherine Briggs and her daughter, Isabel Briggs Myers, there are 16 personality types, each derived from four pairs of psychological attributes:

• introverted or extroverted (I or E).

• sensing or intuitive (S or N).

• thinking or feeling (T or F).

• judging or perceiving (J or P).

But Niednagel believes an individual's hard-wiring determines more than personality -- that it's 65 percent responsible for physical, cognitive and spatial skills, as well.

In other words, one brain type lends itself to a strong right arm, another to superb hand-eye coordination, another to nimble feet.

The ideal type for quarterbacks is not the same as the ideal type for point guards or starting pitchers. One type even makes for the best coaches: John Wooden, Mike Krzyzewski, Walter Alston and Tom Landry all can be classified as ISTJs, according to Niednagel.

``Nurture could be less than 35 percent, but the 65 percent that's nature is so dominant that you won't find certain types in any sport, or any position in a certain sport,'' said Niednagel, an ISTJ.

Not wanting to tip off the competition -- or expose themselves to second-guessing by fans and media -- most coaches and general managers keep their relationship with Niednagel private.

Danny Ainge, the Boston Celtics' director of basketball operations, is the exception. He referred two other NBA general managers -- Denver's Kiki Vandeweghe and Minnesota's Kevin McHale -- to the good doctor. ``You can take Red Auerbach, Jerry West, Phil Jackson,'' Ainge once proclaimed. ``I'd take Jon Niednagel.''

Another longtime proponent is Terry Donahue, although he did not hire Niednagel to evaluate players during his tenure as 49ers general manager.

``Terry was reluctant to have involvement with me because of the people there and their desire to call the shots,'' Niednagel said. ``I helped him with some of the people he was interfacing with in management or the coaches.''

Donahue did not respond to an interview request for this story, but his testimonial is on Niednagel's Web site: ``I've found the information to be absolutely fascinating, almost scary, because it's so correct.''

Niednagel is so attuned to the manifestations of each type that he claims he doesn't need personal contact to determine an athlete's brain type. Here are a few of his evaluations, culled from stories and interviews over the years:

• Ryan Leaf is an ESTJ, one of the worst brain types for quarterbacks. Scott Mitchell is also an ESTJ.

• Cincinnati quarterback Carson Palmer, an ISFJ and the top pick in the '03 draft, will never be a great player because of the poor physical response to pressure. Niednagel believes Palmer's ideal sport is bowling.

• Get Randy Johnson early or don't get him at all. Johnson is the rare INTJ -- as are Phil Jackson and Tony La Russa -- which means he tends to be mechanical early in big games but relaxes in the middle innings.

• There's an ideal type for basketball players (ISTP) that's shared by Michael Jordan, Jerry West, Larry Bird and Shaquille O'Neal.

Niednagel's critics point out that his Web site is light on science and heavy on propaganda: It makes no mention of erroneous evaluations. Then again, by claiming that 35 percent of performance is based on nurture and not brain type, Niednagel has a built-in out. He can never be proved wrong.

``Brain-typing is so ill-defined,'' Sandbek said. ``If he says you're this and this and this, there's no way to disprove it. There is no independent means of verification. He can say anything he wants.

``In the scientific community, the typology of Jung has been totally discredited. Myers-Briggs has been discredited.''

Try telling that to the San Diego Chargers.

These athletes and celebrities share the same brain types, based on four pairs of psychological traits. More on brain types

JOE MONTANA AND CLINT EASTWOOD
Either one could make your day.

MICHAEL JORDAN AND NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF
Their mantra: Follow me to victory.

TIGER WOODS AND RICHARD CHAMBERLAIN
Major victories -- and majorly long miniseries.

BARRY BONDS AND BRITNEY SPEARS
This one pretty much defies description.

_________________________________________________________

I found this very interesting.
It make sense, but i'd like to know who prevailed despite an incompatible personality type.
Does anyone here know theirs? I'm INTJ
here's a link for the test: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

Hammock Parties · 04-20-2005, 04:09 AM

I just took the test. Apparently I'm Randy Johnson - INTJ- or Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging.

"Mastermind Rational"

"Masterminds will adopt ideas only if they are useful" - yup, that's me.

Hammock Parties · 04-20-2005, 04:13 AM

Bahahahaha!

Quote:

Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel. While they are capable of caring deeply for others (usually a select few), and are willing to spend a great deal of time and effort on a relationship, the knowledge and self-confidence that make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations.

This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense. :-) This sometimes results in a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and directness.

Probably the strongest INTJ assets in the interpersonal area are their intuitive abilities and their willingness to "work at" a relationship. Although as Ts they do not always have the kind of natural empathy that many Fs do, the Intuitive function can often act as a good substitute by synthesizing the probable meanings behind such things as tone of voice, turn of phrase, and facial expression. This ability can then be honed and directed by consistent, repeated efforts to understand and support those they care about, and those relationships which ultimately do become established with an INTJ tend to be characterized by their robustness, stability, and good communications.

Hammock Parties · 04-20-2005, 04:15 AM

Famous INTJs:

Dan Aykroyd (The Blues Brothers)
Susan B. Anthony
Arthur Ashe, tennis champion
Augustus Caesar (Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus)
Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice)
William J. Bennett, "drug czar"
William F. Buckley, Jr.
Raymond Burr (Perry Mason, Ironsides)
Chevy Chase (Cornelius Crane) (Fletch)
Phil Donahue
Michael Dukakis, governor of Mass., 1988 U.S. Dem. pres. candidate
Greg Gumbel, television sportscaster
Hannibal, Carthaginian military leader
Veronica Hamel (Hill Street Blues)
Angela Lansbury (Murder, She Wrote)
Orel Leonard Hershiser, IV
Peter Jennings
Charles Everett Koop
Ivan Lendl
C. S. Lewis (The Chronicles of Narnia)
Joan Lunden
Edwin Moses, U.S. olympian (hurdles)
Martina Navratilova
Charles Rangel, U. S. Representative, D-N.Y.
Pernell Roberts (Bonanza)
Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California -

Josephine Tey (Elizabeth Mackintosh), mystery writer (Brat Farrar)
Rudy Giuliani, former New York City mayor
Donald Rumsfeld, US Secretary of Defense
General Colin Powell, US Secretary of State
Lance Armstrong
Richard Gere (Pretty Woman)
Katie Couric

U.S. Presidents:
Chester A. Arthur
Calvin Coolidge
Thomas Jefferson
John F. Kennedy
James K. Polk
Woodrow Wilson

Fictional:

Cassius (Julius Caesar)
Mr. Darcy (Pride and Prejudice)
Gandalf the Grey (J. R. R. Tolkein's Middle Earth books) - HELL YES
Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)
Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis
Ensign Ro (Star Trek--the Next Generation) -

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (Hamlet)
George Smiley, John le Carre's master spy
Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs)

Nightfyre · 04-20-2005, 04:58 AM

Evidently I am a field marshall. I should join the military. Bonaparte, General Norman Schwarzkopf, and General George C Marshall were all ENTJs...

Nightfyre · 04-20-2005, 05:11 AM

Wow... So true...

Quote:

ENTJs are decisive. They see what needs to be done, and frequently assign roles to their fellows. Few other types can equal their ability to remain resolute in conflict, sending the valiant (and often leading the charge) into the mouth of hell. When challenged, the ENTJ may by reflex become argumentative. Alternatively (s)he may unleash an icy gaze that serves notice: the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with.

htismaqe · 04-20-2005, 05:25 AM

Hmmm...I'm an ESTP.

**ExtremeChief** · 04-20-2005, 05:29 AM

ESFJ

pretty close description I guess

**Bob Dole** · 04-20-2005, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rufusmaqe

Hmmm...I'm an ESTP.

Too bad you've got a noodle for an arm.

**the Talking Can** · 04-20-2005, 05:35 AM

Any GM that would listen to a "brain typologist" deserves genital mutilation.

Nightfyre · 04-20-2005, 05:39 AM

So far that makes:
gochiefs a pal
rufus a suitemate
extreme an enigma...

Nightfyre · 04-20-2005, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Any GM that would listen to a "brain typologist" deserves genital mutilation.

Not really if you think about it. The test determines how you act under pressure, as a leader, etc...

**the Talking Can** · 04-20-2005, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

Not really if you think about it. The test determines how you act under pressure, as a leader, etc...

the test is bullshit

Nightfyre · 04-20-2005, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

the test is bullshit

It nailed my personality down...

edit: take the test TC...

Pants · 04-20-2005, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

Not really if you think about it. The test determines how you act under pressure, as a leader, etc...

That test is bullshit. On a lot of those questions I was thinking to myslef that I could go either way or even both ways depending on the situation. My "profile" was pretty much opposite of what I am, save for few parts which contradicted each other (like being both good at math and languages).

04-20-2005, 03:55 AM
elvomito ☻☺ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ♠█♠ Casino cash: $10004900	KCStar NFL Draft: Picking their brains http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...l/11435557.htm One man claims to forecast success from profiles By JON WILNER San Jose Mercury News In their pre-draft evaluations of quarterbacks Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers, the 49ers' brass have sought advice from a wide range of coaches, scouts, trainers and doctors. But the 49ers have not consulted with the man who decoded the Peyton Manning-Ryan Leaf Draft Debate of 1998, the man who claims to have unique insight into the way athletes move and think, the man known as ``The Brain Doctor.'' His diagnosis? ``The 49ers are nuts for not contacting me,'' Jonathan Niednagel said last week. ``Each of those guys has an inborn brain type, and that will dramatically affect the way they play.'' Niednagel is not a doctor; he was a finance major in college. But he has spent two decades studying how brain circuitry affects performance and gets paid six figures by professional sports teams for advice on potential draft picks and free-agent signees. He believes, for instance, that there's an ideal brain type for quarterbacks: ESTP, an acronym for extroverted, sensing, thinking, perceiving. Joe Montana is an ESTP. So are John Elway, Brett Favre, Dan Marino and Manning. They live for the moment and aren't fazed by their own mistakes. When the stakes are highest, they think as logically as Mr. Spock. ``Under pressure, you localize to the area of the brain where you are strongest,'' said Niednagel (pronounced NEED-noggle). ``Guys like Montana and Favre, they are thinkers.'' So what about the hard-wiring of the quarterbacks at the top of the 49ers' draft board? Based on a preliminary analysis, Niednagel said, neither Smith nor Rodgers is an ESTP. That doesn't necessarily mean they're destined for failure. Tom Brady isn't an ESTP, either. But he's perfectly suited for the team New England Patriots Coach Bill Belichick has built around him. ``If you put Brady with another squad, there's no way he would have developed the way he has,'' Niednagel said. ``He's not a guy who, if you let him do the Brett Favre-freelance thing, he's going to be effective. But he's with a coach who is very structured and knows how to use him.'' Niednagel made a nickname for himself during the '98 draft. After Indianapolis picked Manning No. 1, Niednagel turned to San Diego Chargers General Manager Bobby Beathard and explained that Leaf was not hard-wired to be an NFL quarterback. The Chargers took Leaf anyway, and three years later he was out of the league. ``I wish we had had more exposure to Jon at the time, so we would have put more weight on his evaluation,'' Beathard told the Albany (N.Y.) Times Union last year. ``He was right.'' Beathard's view isn't shared by all. Terry Sandbek, a clinic psychologist from Sacramento, compared brain typing to ``astrology.'' ``There's no validity and no reliability,'' Sandbek said, ``and those are the gold standards in the scientific community.'' Niednagel, 57, has no hard science in his background. He grew up in Evansville, Ind., attended Westmont College in Santa Barbara and said he graduated from Long Beach State, although the Mercury News was unable to confirm his degree. After college, he coached Pop Warner football and noticed a direct correlation between motor skills and personality. In 1983, he founded Type Dynamics, which became the Brain Type Institute in the early '90s. He runs a Web site (braintypes.com), is the author of several books and has been profiled by ESPN, Sports Illustrated and Fox Sports. His theories are based on the brain-typing method first proposed by Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung and popularized by the Myers-Briggs personality test. According to Katherine Briggs and her daughter, Isabel Briggs Myers, there are 16 personality types, each derived from four pairs of psychological attributes: • introverted or extroverted (I or E). • sensing or intuitive (S or N). • thinking or feeling (T or F). • judging or perceiving (J or P). But Niednagel believes an individual's hard-wiring determines more than personality -- that it's 65 percent responsible for physical, cognitive and spatial skills, as well. In other words, one brain type lends itself to a strong right arm, another to superb hand-eye coordination, another to nimble feet. The ideal type for quarterbacks is not the same as the ideal type for point guards or starting pitchers. One type even makes for the best coaches: John Wooden, Mike Krzyzewski, Walter Alston and Tom Landry all can be classified as ISTJs, according to Niednagel. ``Nurture could be less than 35 percent, but the 65 percent that's nature is so dominant that you won't find certain types in any sport, or any position in a certain sport,'' said Niednagel, an ISTJ. Not wanting to tip off the competition -- or expose themselves to second-guessing by fans and media -- most coaches and general managers keep their relationship with Niednagel private. Danny Ainge, the Boston Celtics' director of basketball operations, is the exception. He referred two other NBA general managers -- Denver's Kiki Vandeweghe and Minnesota's Kevin McHale -- to the good doctor. ``You can take Red Auerbach, Jerry West, Phil Jackson,'' Ainge once proclaimed. ``I'd take Jon Niednagel.'' Another longtime proponent is Terry Donahue, although he did not hire Niednagel to evaluate players during his tenure as 49ers general manager. ``Terry was reluctant to have involvement with me because of the people there and their desire to call the shots,'' Niednagel said. ``I helped him with some of the people he was interfacing with in management or the coaches.'' Donahue did not respond to an interview request for this story, but his testimonial is on Niednagel's Web site: ``I've found the information to be absolutely fascinating, almost scary, because it's so correct.'' Niednagel is so attuned to the manifestations of each type that he claims he doesn't need personal contact to determine an athlete's brain type. Here are a few of his evaluations, culled from stories and interviews over the years: • Ryan Leaf is an ESTJ, one of the worst brain types for quarterbacks. Scott Mitchell is also an ESTJ. • Cincinnati quarterback Carson Palmer, an ISFJ and the top pick in the '03 draft, will never be a great player because of the poor physical response to pressure. Niednagel believes Palmer's ideal sport is bowling. • Get Randy Johnson early or don't get him at all. Johnson is the rare INTJ -- as are Phil Jackson and Tony La Russa -- which means he tends to be mechanical early in big games but relaxes in the middle innings. • There's an ideal type for basketball players (ISTP) that's shared by Michael Jordan, Jerry West, Larry Bird and Shaquille O'Neal. Niednagel's critics point out that his Web site is light on science and heavy on propaganda: It makes no mention of erroneous evaluations. Then again, by claiming that 35 percent of performance is based on nurture and not brain type, Niednagel has a built-in out. He can never be proved wrong. ``Brain-typing is so ill-defined,'' Sandbek said. ``If he says you're this and this and this, there's no way to disprove it. There is no independent means of verification. He can say anything he wants. ``In the scientific community, the typology of Jung has been totally discredited. Myers-Briggs has been discredited.'' Try telling that to the San Diego Chargers. These athletes and celebrities share the same brain types, based on four pairs of psychological traits. More on brain types JOE MONTANA AND CLINT EASTWOOD Either one could make your day. MICHAEL JORDAN AND NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF Their mantra: Follow me to victory. TIGER WOODS AND RICHARD CHAMBERLAIN Major victories -- and majorly long miniseries. BARRY BONDS AND BRITNEY SPEARS This one pretty much defies description. _________________________________________________________ I found this very interesting. It make sense, but i'd like to know who prevailed despite an incompatible personality type. Does anyone here know theirs? I'm INTJ here's a link for the test: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp Last edited by elvomito; 04-20-2005 at 04:04 AM..
Posts: 2,362

04-20-2005, 04:09 AM	#2
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4800478	I just took the test. Apparently I'm Randy Johnson - INTJ- or Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging. "Mastermind Rational" "Masterminds will adopt ideas only if they are useful" - yup, that's me. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 277,451

04-20-2005, 04:15 AM	#4
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4800478	Famous INTJs: Dan Aykroyd (The Blues Brothers) Susan B. Anthony Arthur Ashe, tennis champion Augustus Caesar (Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus) Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice) William J. Bennett, "drug czar" William F. Buckley, Jr. Raymond Burr (Perry Mason, Ironsides) Chevy Chase (Cornelius Crane) (Fletch) Phil Donahue Michael Dukakis, governor of Mass., 1988 U.S. Dem. pres. candidate Greg Gumbel, television sportscaster Hannibal, Carthaginian military leader Veronica Hamel (Hill Street Blues) Angela Lansbury (Murder, She Wrote) Orel Leonard Hershiser, IV Peter Jennings Charles Everett Koop Ivan Lendl C. S. Lewis (The Chronicles of Narnia) Joan Lunden Edwin Moses, U.S. olympian (hurdles) Martina Navratilova Charles Rangel, U. S. Representative, D-N.Y. Pernell Roberts (Bonanza) Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California - Josephine Tey (Elizabeth Mackintosh), mystery writer (Brat Farrar) Rudy Giuliani, former New York City mayor Donald Rumsfeld, US Secretary of Defense General Colin Powell, US Secretary of State Lance Armstrong Richard Gere (Pretty Woman) Katie Couric U.S. Presidents: Chester A. Arthur Calvin Coolidge Thomas Jefferson John F. Kennedy James K. Polk Woodrow Wilson Fictional: Cassius (Julius Caesar) Mr. Darcy (Pride and Prejudice) Gandalf the Grey (J. R. R. Tolkein's Middle Earth books) - HELL YES Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs) Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis Ensign Ro (Star Trek--the Next Generation) - Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (Hamlet) George Smiley, John le Carre's master spy Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs) __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 277,451

04-20-2005, 04:58 AM	#5
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $3728849	Evidently I am a field marshall. I should join the military. Bonaparte, General Norman Schwarzkopf, and General George C Marshall were all ENTJs...
Posts: 18,519

04-20-2005, 05:25 AM	#7
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $10269900	Hmmm...I'm an ESTP.
Posts: 100,022

04-20-2005, 05:29 AM	#8
ExtremeChief Poser Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: BFE, MO Casino cash: $9991344	ESFJ pretty close description I guess __________________ When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.
Posts: 2,354

04-20-2005, 05:35 AM	#10
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $10022208	Any GM that would listen to a "brain typologist" deserves genital mutilation. __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585

04-20-2005, 05:39 AM	#11
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $3728849	So far that makes: gochiefs a pal rufus a suitemate extreme an enigma...
Posts: 18,519