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Old 09-15-2019, 02:33 PM  
RealSNR RealSNR is offline
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Frank Clark ****ing sucks

Guy has done NOTHING in two games. Barely any pressures to speak of against trash OTs.

Yeah, I'm in bitchy gameday mode. Don't care. I'm tired of paying out the ass for defensive players who don't make plays.

At least Justin Houston could dominate against bad teams after we paid him.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:41 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
Is that right?

So far this season, Khalil Mack has 6 solo/combined tackles and one sack in two games.

Frank Clark has 6 solo/combined tackles, no sacks, and one interception.

So by your own measuring stick, Frank Clark is doing fine.
That’s how you put things in perspective

Nice post
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:41 AM   #122
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I actually don't have a sack number to be honest, i'm more of a pressures and just disruption kinda guy and the sacks will come.

But yea, he needs to be a 12 sack guy I guess if I put a number on it.
Fair enough. For his money I'd expect him to crack double digits and I think he will.

I think he's brought a lot without the sacks so far, but obviously I think it's a big disappointment if he can't crack 10.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:42 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Easy 6 View Post
That’s how you put things in perspective

Nice post
Eh... I think stats are misleading.

Mack is a more disruptive player on a down to down basis, and I don't think ANYONE would argue that. Stats are nice, but people should use their eyes.

Hypothetically a pass rusher can disrupt an entire game and not post a sack. Hypothetically a guy can have 2 or 3 sacks and never actually BEAT an offensive linemen to get them.

Clark is just not and never has been a down to down disruptor like Mack. It's not even a fair expectation to put on him.

I'd rather have the generational QB than the generational pass rusher. Already had that. Didn't win a ****ing thing.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:44 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
I saw Mack come in last year to a new system or whatever and wreck shit.

I'll give him a bit of a break because I've seen him be a badass after moving like that.

I haven't seen Clark do that.
except that you haven't really.



in 2018, Mack had 47 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 18 QB hits and one INT.
in 2018, Clark had 41 tackles, 13 sacks, 27 QB hits, and one INT.

This season, their stats are nearly identical other than Clark has an INT and Mack has one sack.

2 games is a tiny sample size, but even within that sample size, any concern over Clark's production when compared to Mack is rendered null and void.

Mack certainly had some big games last season; he also had some in which he barely shows up on the stat line. Same with Clark. That's kind of the way it works in the NFL.

I'm sure both he and Clark will this season as well.. But a head to head comparison with your own player of choice shows there's no reason for concern.

I don't know how else to allay your fears.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:44 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
PB isn’t factoring in things like Clark’s contribution to improved run D, or 3rd down stops, or his INT.

He’s a sack stat guy.
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Eh... I think stats are misleading.

Mack is a more disruptive player on a down to down basis, and I don't think ANYONE would argue that.
Numbers count or they wouldn’t keep track of them

Cave also adds some perspective with his post above
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:52 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Eh... I think stats are misleading.

Mack is a more disruptive player on a down to down basis, and I don't think ANYONE would argue that. Stats are nice, but people should use their eyes.

Hypothetically a pass rusher can disrupt an entire game and not post a sack. Hypothetically a guy can have 2 or 3 sacks and never actually BEAT an offensive linemen to get them.

Clark is just not and never has been a down to down disruptor like Mack. It's not even a fair expectation to put on him.

I'd rather have the generational QB than the generational pass rusher. Already had that. Didn't win a ****ing thing.
Well, to be honest, Mack is probably the best edge player in football. He's more disruptive than anyone.

I would argue that Clark is just a tick below. And that this first 2 games is a tiny sample size, and that even within that tiny sample size, his play has been fine and compare favorably with Mack. The sacks will come.

Statistically, his 2018 was very comparable to Mack, the best edge player in football. Half a sack more and 1/3 more QB hits.

As for disruptive, he's been very disruptive. He's been very good against the run, has blown up some screens, and has required extra attention/game planning from opposing offenses to keep him contained. Pretty soon, teams will have to abandon that and we'll see the sacks come in bunches.

I say anyone claiming he sucks is just flat wrong and doesn't know what they're talking about.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:52 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Easy 6 View Post
Numbers count or they wouldn’t keep track of them

Cave also adds some perspective with his post above
Burn that strawman down.

"Stats don't tell the whole story" is obviously a different statement than "Stats are worthless", but go on.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:54 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
Well, to be honest, Mack is probably the best edge player in football. He's more disruptive than anyone.

I would argue that Clark is just a tick below. And that this first 2 games is a tiny sample size, and that even within that tiny sample size, his play has been fine and compare favorably with Mack. The sacks will come.

Statistically, his 2018 was very comparable to Mack, the best edge player in football. Half a sack more and nearly 1/3 more QB hits.

As for disruptive, he's been very disruptive. He's been very good against the run, has blown up some screens, and has required extra attention/game planning from opposing offenses to keep him contained. Pretty soon, teams will have to abandon that and we'll see the sacks come in bunches.

I say anyone claiming he sucks is just flat wrong and doesn't know what they're talking about.
We agree on the core of the argument. My only point is a 2 game comparative sample is not really viable.

There are probably quite a few guys with better stats after two games than Mack, but that doesn't mean they're better players or have been as disruptive.

Which is exactly the reason I'm not in a panic because Clark isn't stuffing the stat sheet. He's a really good player, and he'll have his games.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:55 AM   #129
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Chiefs sacked Carr 3 times and only gave up 198 yards passing. I don't care about individual stats as much as i care about giving up only 10 points and winning by 18.

I mean we shut them out for 3 quarters in a game they were trailing by 3 scores in by the second half.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:57 AM   #130
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Numbers only count when they work for "your" guy. So far, after 2 games, the chiefs are looking like a middle of the pack defense which is far above last year. I'd also say that it's sooner than expected regardless who they have played. Keep giving them time to develop chemistry and communication and learning to play together. I'm cautiously optimistic at this stage.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:58 AM   #131
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Frank Clark sucks? Because he didn't get a sack in either game yet? Ok
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:59 AM   #132
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Frank Clark sucks? Because I didn't get a sack in either game yet? Ok
That SEEMS to be the argument. That only shitty pass rushers go 2 games without a sack.

Or something. I'm not really sure.
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Old 09-16-2019, 09:11 AM   #133
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Dude come on. 100M for a player who “doesn’t abandon assignments?”





You’ve gotta be kidding.

Did I say that was all he does?

Others are already making the points I would make and making them better than I would.

If Clark continues to demand double-teams while playing well against the run and holding the point of attack, he’s doing his job and doing it well; he doesn’t need to rack up sack totals like Dee Ford did to be a better player, especially in this scheme.

He’s an intelligent football player, too. If you watch him closely, you see a handful of plays where he realizes it’s a three-step drop and the ball is about to come out, so he stops his rush and tries to get hands up.

He’s just an all-around good player, and that’s what they need as the centerpiece of this D.

If they pair him with another really dangerous pass rush threat at the other DE spot or Chris Jones gets on a roll and starts commanding double-teams and chips, he’ll find easier opportunities in pass rush situations.

I suspect the Chiefs DL under the Daly/Spagnuolo combo will continue to look like this, though. All-around players who are intelligent and do their job every down, without freelancing.
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Old 09-16-2019, 09:11 AM   #134
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except that you haven't really.



in 2018, Mack had 47 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 18 QB hits and one INT.
in 2018, Clark had 41 tackles, 13 sacks, 27 QB hits, and one INT.

This season, their stats are nearly identical other than Clark has an INT and Mack has one sack.

2 games is a tiny sample size, but even within that sample size, any concern over Clark's production when compared to Mack is rendered null and void.

Mack certainly had some big games last season; he also had some in which he barely shows up on the stat line. Same with Clark. That's kind of the way it works in the NFL.

I'm sure both he and Clark will this season as well.. But a head to head comparison with your own player of choice shows there's no reason for concern.

I don't know how else to allay your fears.
First let me say though, I don't think Clark sucks at all. He's a really good complete player.

My argument is more about what they gave up and are paying him, we need him to be more of a force and make plays.
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Old 09-16-2019, 09:14 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
People that think Clark has sucked are the same people who thought Ford was awesome.

You're not really watching if you think that.
I NEVER thought Ford was awesome.
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