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Old 08-04-2015, 06:10 PM  
Eleazar Eleazar is offline
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Seattle's $15 minimum wage redux

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Seattle became the first city in the nation to implement the $15 per hour minimum wage this past spring. Fox News reports that one unintended effect is that workers who are earning the higher wage are asking for fewer hours, so they can remain eligible for low income government benefits like childcare and tax credits.

Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.

Local radio talk show host Jason Rantz on KIRO-FM noted the irony: “If [employees] cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people.”

“Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376,” according to Fox News.

...

“Some restaurants have tacked on a 15 percent surcharge to cover the higher wages. And some managers are no longer encouraging customers to tip, leading to a redistribution of income. Workers in the back of the kitchen, such as dishwashers and cooks, are getting paid more, but servers who rely on tips are seeing a pay cut,” Fox News reported.

...

Earlier this year, as the implementation of the minimum wage law loomed, Seattle Magazine noted that something appeared to be afoot affecting the restaurant industry in the city, asking: “Why Are So Many Seattle Restaurants Closing Lately? “Seattle foodies [are] downcast,” the magazine reported

...

The magazine went on to report that one “major factor affecting restaurant futures in our city is the impending minimum wage hike.” Anthony Anton, president and CEO of the Washington Restaurant Association, told the magazine: “It’s not a political problem; it’s a math problem.” He estimates that restaurants usually have a budget breakdown of about 36 percent for labor, 30 percent for food costs, and 30 percent to cover other operational costs. That leaves 4 percent for a profit margin. When labor costs shoot up to, say 42 percent, something has to give.

Shah Burnham is just one Seattle restaurant owner who believes that keeping her doors open is no longer worth it. She owns a popular Z Pizza restaurant location and says that even though her one store only has 12 employees, she’s considered part of the Z Pizza franchise — a large business. So she has to give raises within the next two years. “Small businesses in the city have up to six more years to phase in the new $15 an hour minimum wage,” according to Seattle’s Fox News 13.

“I know that I would have stayed here if I had 7 years, just like everyone else, if I had an even playing field,” she says. “The discrimination I’m feeling right now against my small business makes me not want to stay and do anything in Seattle.”

...

The Heritage Foundation notes the minimum wage is usually for new workers, with a low percentage of Americans receiving it. The organization also points out some other interesting statistics:

Over half of minimum-wage earners are between the ages of 16 and 24.
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers earn raises within a year—without the government’s help.
Only 2.9 percent of wage earners earn the federal minimum wage.
Most minimum-wage earners are teenagers or young adults, not heads of families.
Two-thirds work part time (defined as less than 35 hours a week).
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers live in families with incomes above 150 percent of the poverty line.
Just 4 percent of minimum-wage workers are single parents working full time, compared to 5.6 percent of all U.S. workers.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/sea...ent=2015-08-04
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:32 AM   #91
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What? Loneiguana said that there's no down side to an increase. EVERYONE would benefit.
Who said there's no downside? I want to ridicule that person.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:33 AM   #92
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$30/hr is an absurdity. The only reason he argued that is because it's so absurd. There's literally zero reason to put forth a number like $30, since nobody is realistically suggesting that. It's only made because he's attempting to make a goofball hyperbolic extreme situation that he knows is unfeasible.
Is it absurd? If we look at GDP, we get a pet capita figure of $47k. Avg household size is what, 2.1 so that implies national income (if evenly distributed) would result in 100k incomes for every household. Some commies have made similar points.


So taken to its extreme, a $30 wage is absolutely within the upper bounds of redistribution and hence not "an absurdity". $500 would be. What we are debating is WHAT the inflection should be and WHY.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:34 AM   #93
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If the raise they are looking for prices them out of the market because they could be replaced by kiosks, you mean?
I meant to ask exactly what I asked. I don't need you to rephrase my question. I appreciate your willingness to help, but not as much as I'd appreciate an answer.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:34 AM   #94
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Not if it makes economic sense for the employer.

My point is that it would be rather ironic and amusing if these people get their raise and then some of the workers are replaced because they demanded a wage increase that results in them having no job at all.
Do you think cashiers do nothing else but take orders? That fast food only hire people who only take orders and do nothing else?

And that there would be zero increase in business from these people having more money that may increase the need for more workers?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:35 AM   #95
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Who said there's no downside? I want to ridicule that person.
You'll notice that they lie a lot about what I "say".

It's makes it easier for them since they can't actually refute the economic reasoning.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:36 AM   #96
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It is absurd. If the goal is to remove people from public assistance, there is no reason to set the minimum wage twice as high as what is needed to get a worker's wages above the cutoff.

I hope that wasn't too difficult to follow.
No matter how often I say "Federal Poverty line", they never listen.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:36 AM   #97
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Not if it makes economic sense for the employer.

My point is that it would be rather ironic and amusing if these people get their raise and then some of the workers are replaced because they demanded a wage increase that results in them having no job at all.
It will be neither ironic nor amusing. It will simply be predictable, because it absolutely will happen. The question revolves around the degree to which it will happen and whether or not the good outweighs the bad.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:39 AM   #98
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I meant to ask exactly what I asked. I don't need you to rephrase my question. I appreciate your willingness to help, but not as much as I'd appreciate an answer.
Sure. I'd be willing to bet that the effect that this has on the number of people on gubmint assistance will be negligible. Maybe a percent or two.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:39 AM   #99
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What? Loneiguana said that there's no down side to an increase. EVERYONE would benefit.
Loneiguana...shame on you for saying that. There will absolutely be a downside.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:39 AM   #100
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Sure. I'd be willing to bet that the effect that this has on the number of people on gubmint assistance will be negligible. Maybe a percent or two.
Which direction?

I guess it doesn't matter if it's so small as to be negligible. If the number of people on assistance stays effectively unchanged, this has to be considered a win, right? I mean, salaries will have increased so all else being equal, this result would seem to be a net positive.

Last edited by Saul Good; 08-05-2015 at 11:50 AM..
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:39 AM   #101
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You'll notice that they lie a lot about what I "say".

It's makes it easier for them since they can't actually refute the economic reasoning.
Excellent. So, what's the downside to a minimum wage increase?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:40 AM   #102
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Loneiguana...shame on you for saying that. There will absolutely be a downside.
See post #95
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:40 AM   #103
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Which direction?
Either way.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:41 AM   #104
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Do you think cashiers do nothing else but take orders? That fast food only hire people who only take orders and do nothing else?

And that there would be zero increase in business from these people having more money that may increase the need for more workers?
Beats me. But if they do other things, surely the other burger flippers could pick up the slack.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:43 AM   #105
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Is it absurd? If we look at GDP, we get a pet capita figure of $47k. Avg household size is what, 2.1 so that implies national income (if evenly distributed) would result in 100k incomes for every household. Some commies have made similar points.


So taken to its extreme, a $30 wage is absolutely within the upper bounds of redistribution and hence not "an absurdity". $500 would be. What we are debating is WHAT the inflection should be and WHY.
That's only way you present any kind or argument whatsoever. Not by looking at what is feasible and workable for both sides, but only looking at one extreme that isn't even being proposed and will never be proposed. That's why your argument is just retarded. Whatever solution the country decides on is not going to be "Taken to its extreme". Therefore proposing possible problems that are only apparent when the situation is taken to its extreme is completely irrelevant. It's what idiots do when they cannot argue properly. Don't be so dumb.
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