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Old 08-04-2015, 06:10 PM  
Eleazar Eleazar is offline
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Seattle's $15 minimum wage redux

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Seattle became the first city in the nation to implement the $15 per hour minimum wage this past spring. Fox News reports that one unintended effect is that workers who are earning the higher wage are asking for fewer hours, so they can remain eligible for low income government benefits like childcare and tax credits.

Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.

Local radio talk show host Jason Rantz on KIRO-FM noted the irony: “If [employees] cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people.”

“Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376,” according to Fox News.

...

“Some restaurants have tacked on a 15 percent surcharge to cover the higher wages. And some managers are no longer encouraging customers to tip, leading to a redistribution of income. Workers in the back of the kitchen, such as dishwashers and cooks, are getting paid more, but servers who rely on tips are seeing a pay cut,” Fox News reported.

...

Earlier this year, as the implementation of the minimum wage law loomed, Seattle Magazine noted that something appeared to be afoot affecting the restaurant industry in the city, asking: “Why Are So Many Seattle Restaurants Closing Lately? “Seattle foodies [are] downcast,” the magazine reported

...

The magazine went on to report that one “major factor affecting restaurant futures in our city is the impending minimum wage hike.” Anthony Anton, president and CEO of the Washington Restaurant Association, told the magazine: “It’s not a political problem; it’s a math problem.” He estimates that restaurants usually have a budget breakdown of about 36 percent for labor, 30 percent for food costs, and 30 percent to cover other operational costs. That leaves 4 percent for a profit margin. When labor costs shoot up to, say 42 percent, something has to give.

Shah Burnham is just one Seattle restaurant owner who believes that keeping her doors open is no longer worth it. She owns a popular Z Pizza restaurant location and says that even though her one store only has 12 employees, she’s considered part of the Z Pizza franchise — a large business. So she has to give raises within the next two years. “Small businesses in the city have up to six more years to phase in the new $15 an hour minimum wage,” according to Seattle’s Fox News 13.

“I know that I would have stayed here if I had 7 years, just like everyone else, if I had an even playing field,” she says. “The discrimination I’m feeling right now against my small business makes me not want to stay and do anything in Seattle.”

...

The Heritage Foundation notes the minimum wage is usually for new workers, with a low percentage of Americans receiving it. The organization also points out some other interesting statistics:

Over half of minimum-wage earners are between the ages of 16 and 24.
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers earn raises within a year—without the government’s help.
Only 2.9 percent of wage earners earn the federal minimum wage.
Most minimum-wage earners are teenagers or young adults, not heads of families.
Two-thirds work part time (defined as less than 35 hours a week).
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers live in families with incomes above 150 percent of the poverty line.
Just 4 percent of minimum-wage workers are single parents working full time, compared to 5.6 percent of all U.S. workers.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/sea...ent=2015-08-04
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:07 PM   #166
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Ok. I took a stab at it. So how would you define success and failure?

Do you consider Obama's stimulus a success or failure? How about GWB's bailout? What criteria do you use?
It's hard to say. If we had established years ago that the goal of the stimulus was to have national unemployment below 8% by August of 2015, for example, then it was a huge success. If the goal was to have a balanced budget by that same date, it's a horrific failure.

That's why it's important to set clear definitions in advance.

I would say that the current percentage of people in Seattle receiving government assistance is the benchmark. If that number goes down, it's a success.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:18 PM   #167
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
I admit that I don't know if people above or at the poverty level are eligible for benefits, but his standard in other threads was that the single parent of two not receive support payments from the government. That if they were it demonstarted the wage was too low
If $15 hour minimum wage cuts off welfare payments to a single mother of two, then hooray.
Cool. That seems reasonable.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:24 PM   #168
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$500/hr is well within the parameters of our national income stats. But again, that's irrelevant when talking about MINIMUM wage. Minimum. All you're doing is making ridiculous unfeasible examples at the other end of the spectrum which is not at all what anybody is talking about.

Your consideration is equally irrelevant and dumb.
$500 is absurd and not remotely within legitimate parameters. I'd put the max end at something like $50/hr.



Yes, we are talking MINIMUM wage. Thanks for reminding me. Of course they encompass a piddly-ass 4.7% of all workers (and most of them are transient to this subset anyway) so why you're so concerned about this wage is beyond my comprehension.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:37 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
$500 is absurd and not remotely within legitimate parameters. I'd put the max end at something like $50/hr.



Yes, we are talking MINIMUM wage. Thanks for reminding me. Of course they encompass a piddly-ass 4.7% of all workers (and most of them are transient to this subset anyway) so why you're so concerned about this wage is beyond my comprehension.
You'd put the max end there huh? $50/hr is a possibility for minimum wage?

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Old 08-05-2015, 01:39 PM   #170
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I feel really stupid now. For even responding you, Fish.


What a fool I've been.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:41 PM   #171
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I feel really stupid now. For even responding you, Fish.


What a fool I've been.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:51 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
$500 is absurd and not remotely within legitimate parameters. I'd put the max end at something like $50/hr.



Yes, we are talking MINIMUM wage. Thanks for reminding me. Of course they encompass a piddly-ass 4.7% of all workers (and most of them are transient to this subset anyway) so why you're so concerned about this wage is beyond my comprehension.
Do you realize why your 4.7% number doesn't apply here?
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:26 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Does the Kiosk cook? Prep the supplies? Prep the food? Unload the truck? Clean the bathrooms? Clean the tables? Manage customer complaints? Do inventory? Clean itself? Program itself?

Worrying about technology replacing jobs... Our economy never recovered from replacing elevator operators with technology.
You want to force business to pay the people that do that kind of work $15/hr? Good ****ing luck with that...
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:35 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
You want to force business to pay the people that do that kind of work $15/hr? Good ****ing luck with that...
See, here is the thing about this argument.

Not only does it imply that you think there are jobs that deserve to be paid below the federal poverty line,(which is just crazy) it completely ignores the FACT that worker is getting that pay already, in the form of the social safety net.

What you seem to want is for companies to underpay their workers and for the tax payer and government to pick up the difference. A socialize the losses, privatize the profits type system. A system where the burden of paying for labor is pushed off of companies and consumers and onto the tax payer.

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no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.

-Franklin Roosevelt's Statement on the National Industrial Recovery Act
June 16, 1933
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:36 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
That's correct. I didn't read any of it because it has nothing to do with this topic. If I decide to educate myself further on their HR disaster caused by telling everyone how much their co-workers are paid, rest assured that I will turn to rightwingnews.com to get the full story.
Saying it has nothing to do with this topic is plain ignorant. Their biggest issues are not HR related. Unless you factor in needing to hire more employees to replace the ones that quit over the pay hike.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:38 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
No, I said the minimum wage wouldn't push prices past consumer tolerance.

Yes, I know. You can't understand that sentence, hence your confusion.



Yes, why do you care if someone else is making a living wage? And we have raised minimum wage 22 times. Surely it shouldn't be hard to find all these negative things.
Really? A college grad shouldn't care if a burger flipper is making the same as him? Seriously?
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:48 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Do you realize why your 4.7% number doesn't apply here?
Not really, perhaps you'll explain. I'm assuming this hike still didn't affect many folks there, particularly in a high cost city. I would ask you to provide contrary data, but you never seem to have any.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:54 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by vailpass View Post
You want to force business to pay the people that do that kind of work $15/hr? Good ****ing luck with that...
I'm horrified that these people are being forced to work at these establishments to begin with.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:56 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
See, here is the thing about this argument.

Not only does it imply that you think there are jobs that deserve to be paid below the federal poverty line,(which is just crazy) it completely ignores the FACT that worker is getting that pay already, in the form of the social safety net.

What you seem to want is for companies to underpay their workers and for the tax payer and government to pick up the difference. A socialize the losses, privatize the profits type system. A system where the burden of paying for labor is pushed off of companies and consumers and onto the tax payer.
So, now here you are talking about a living wage, which is different than the poverty line.

So, Saul - it seems that his position is not so clearly stated. The living wage in Seattle for a single mother of two probably is up around $30 an hour.

Cue the histrionics from loneiguana......
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:57 PM   #180
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You want to force business to pay the people that do that kind of work $15/hr? Good ****ing luck with that...
He's previously stated that a cashier at Burger King is as skilled as a bank teller.
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