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Old 08-04-2015, 06:10 PM  
Eleazar Eleazar is offline
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Seattle's $15 minimum wage redux

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Seattle became the first city in the nation to implement the $15 per hour minimum wage this past spring. Fox News reports that one unintended effect is that workers who are earning the higher wage are asking for fewer hours, so they can remain eligible for low income government benefits like childcare and tax credits.

Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.

Local radio talk show host Jason Rantz on KIRO-FM noted the irony: “If [employees] cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people.”

“Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376,” according to Fox News.

...

“Some restaurants have tacked on a 15 percent surcharge to cover the higher wages. And some managers are no longer encouraging customers to tip, leading to a redistribution of income. Workers in the back of the kitchen, such as dishwashers and cooks, are getting paid more, but servers who rely on tips are seeing a pay cut,” Fox News reported.

...

Earlier this year, as the implementation of the minimum wage law loomed, Seattle Magazine noted that something appeared to be afoot affecting the restaurant industry in the city, asking: “Why Are So Many Seattle Restaurants Closing Lately? “Seattle foodies [are] downcast,” the magazine reported

...

The magazine went on to report that one “major factor affecting restaurant futures in our city is the impending minimum wage hike.” Anthony Anton, president and CEO of the Washington Restaurant Association, told the magazine: “It’s not a political problem; it’s a math problem.” He estimates that restaurants usually have a budget breakdown of about 36 percent for labor, 30 percent for food costs, and 30 percent to cover other operational costs. That leaves 4 percent for a profit margin. When labor costs shoot up to, say 42 percent, something has to give.

Shah Burnham is just one Seattle restaurant owner who believes that keeping her doors open is no longer worth it. She owns a popular Z Pizza restaurant location and says that even though her one store only has 12 employees, she’s considered part of the Z Pizza franchise — a large business. So she has to give raises within the next two years. “Small businesses in the city have up to six more years to phase in the new $15 an hour minimum wage,” according to Seattle’s Fox News 13.

“I know that I would have stayed here if I had 7 years, just like everyone else, if I had an even playing field,” she says. “The discrimination I’m feeling right now against my small business makes me not want to stay and do anything in Seattle.”

...

The Heritage Foundation notes the minimum wage is usually for new workers, with a low percentage of Americans receiving it. The organization also points out some other interesting statistics:

Over half of minimum-wage earners are between the ages of 16 and 24.
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers earn raises within a year—without the government’s help.
Only 2.9 percent of wage earners earn the federal minimum wage.
Most minimum-wage earners are teenagers or young adults, not heads of families.
Two-thirds work part time (defined as less than 35 hours a week).
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers live in families with incomes above 150 percent of the poverty line.
Just 4 percent of minimum-wage workers are single parents working full time, compared to 5.6 percent of all U.S. workers.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/sea...ent=2015-08-04
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Old 08-13-2015, 10:36 AM   #271
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Old 08-13-2015, 08:22 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Meh. A federal minimum is the absolute bottom, and states/cities can adopt something higher if they choose to do so. It's a pretty good balance, IMO.
$15 is too high using that logic.
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Old 08-13-2015, 08:24 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Marcellus View Post
$15 is too high using that logic.
Too high for what? If you mean a federal minimum wage, I agree.
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Old 08-14-2015, 07:36 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Meh. A federal minimum is the absolute bottom, and states/cities can adopt something higher if they choose to do so. It's a pretty good balance, IMO.
It's weird to make an argument about local cost of living like he did in the first place.

Is there a place in America where 10.50 an hour is considered not poverty wages?

No.

When it comes to the absolute minimum, it is very easy to look across all of the U.S. and say "Every single state standards of living is at least above 10.00 an hour and peg the federal minimum wage there and then let localities go from there.

Of course, this completely ignores that the GOP doesn't actually believe in letting anyone set a minimum wage, so these "arguments" conservatives have put forth about "cost of living" is window dressing.

For example, in Missouri, our Republican controlled Congress (with a super majority) Truly Agreed to and Finally Passed HCS HB 722 (Introduced by Republican Dan Shaul) and sent it to the Governor (Vetoed).

The Bill prohibits a political subdivision from establishing, mandating, or otherwise requiring an employer to provide to a an employee a minimum wage higher that federal or state laws.

Yes, you read that correctly. The party of "small government" and "Local control" wants to prohibit localities from being able to adjust the minimum wage higher based on their local costs of living.

So, when I hear a conservative talk about "local costs of living" and the minimum wage, its immediately suspect as a dishonest way to derail the conversation with what amounts to a meaningless gesture.

Yes, local costs of living of different, but no, that doesn't mean anything when the GOP tries to enact laws to stop localities from doing anything about it.
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Old 08-14-2015, 08:06 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
I don't think a sit down restaurant can change much on current business model, i.e. greeter, waiter, cooks, etc. True, it can be done but it would take years to implement a new set of work model in this kind of business. Meanwhile, for business to survive the simplest way is to increase the price.
You and I both own restaurants across the street from each other.

The minimum wage gets increased so both our labor costs are increased.

I notice you have raise your prices. The simplest way for my business to survive is to keep my prices the same and watch as I take your customers.

That's the market.
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Old 08-14-2015, 08:07 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
I don't think a sit down restaurant can change much on current business model, i.e. greeter, waiter, cooks, etc. True, it can be done but it would take years to implement a new set of work model in this kind of business. Meanwhile, for business to survive the simplest way is to increase the price.
Some sit downs have been putting order kiosks at their tables. I'd imagine you can cut a little staff that way.
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Old 08-14-2015, 08:14 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm using whatever definition loneiguana uses. It's his claim that increasing the minimum wage to as high as $15/hr is a net positive for reasons such as upward pressure on all wages and more money in the pockets of consumers who will drive domestic economic activity through their increased consumption.
And here is another example of Patty being dishonest again.

Quote:
It's his claim that increasing the minimum wage to as high as $15/hr
Here, he purposely leaves out it's local minimum wages at places like Seattle. His purpose, of course, is to disrupt the conversation by trying to make it seem like I support a 15 dollar Federal minimum wage by dishonestly leaving out key parts.
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Old 08-14-2015, 08:16 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
You and I both own restaurants across the street from each other.

The minimum wage gets increased so both our labor costs are increased.

I notice you have raise your prices. The simplest way for my business to survive is to keep my prices the same and watch as I take your customers.

That's the market.
He holds on, provides the same quality product and service and toughs out the hard times, meanwhile you will have to cut corners in both product and service to make ends meet. You eventually lose your customers due to the lower quality and go out of business. End result is that prices are higher, there is less choice, and your employees are now unemployed.

That's the market.
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:00 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
It's weird to make an argument about local cost of living like he did in the first place.

Is there a place in America where 10.50 an hour is considered not poverty wages?

No.
False. For the single mother with two kids mentioned earlier in the thread, $10/hr is above the poverty line nationwide.
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:01 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
You and I both own restaurants across the street from each other.

The minimum wage gets increased so both our labor costs are increased.

I notice you have raise your prices. The simplest way for my business to survive is to keep my prices the same and watch as I take your customers.

That's the market.
What if the street is State Line and KCMO increased the min wage but Kansas didn't?
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:03 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
And here is another example of Patty being dishonest again.



Here, he purposely leaves out it's local minimum wages at places like Seattle. His purpose, of course, is to disrupt the conversation by trying to make it seem like I support a 15 dollar Federal minimum wage by dishonestly leaving out key parts.
I'm not leaving anything out. You're just trying to wiggle out of stupid things you've said in the past.
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:08 AM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
You and I both own restaurants across the street from each other.

The minimum wage gets increased so both our labor costs are increased.

I notice you have raise your prices. The simplest way for my business to survive is to keep my prices the same and watch as I take your customers.

That's the market.
Except higher costs must result in higher prices eventually, and will reduce the number of people eating out, the frequency at which diners go to restaurants, the amount they spend when they do eat out, and the amount they are tipping staff, resulting in less money for everyone.
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:15 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
False. For the single mother with two kids mentioned earlier in the thread, $10/hr is above the poverty line nationwide.
Here is another perfect example of how patty is dishonest.

For a family of 3, the poverty guideline for 2015 is 20,090.

10.00 an hour = 20,800. (or low enough to qualify for the social safety net)

10.50 an hour = 21,000.

So, again, the comment "Is there a place in America where 10.50 an hour is considered not poverty wages?" is not false, because 10.50 an hour isn't even 1,000 dollars above the poverty line which places it in poverty level wages. which of course perfectly falls in line with "minimum wage should be slightly above the poverty line" that I said early.

Of course, dishonest patty, wants to completely ignore that part, now, when its convenient it for him.
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:18 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by headsnap View Post
He holds on, provides the same quality product and service and toughs out the hard times, meanwhile you will have to cut corners in both product and service to make ends meet. You eventually lose your customers due to the lower quality and go out of business. End result is that prices are higher, there is less choice, and your employees are now unemployed.

That's the market.
Actually, that's not the market, because you are assuming, wrongly, that I have to cut corners when I just saw an increase in revenue from taking your customers.

This is why conservatives continually fail on this topic. You wrongly assume that everything to do with a business is on the supply side and completely ignore the consumer demand side.

Your entire argument here is flawed because you completely ignore an increase in revenue, the most important part of the minimum wage increase.

Try again when you learn about revenue and how more customers equals more money.
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:19 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
What if the street is State Line and KCMO increased the min wage but Kansas didn't?
Ask your GOP representatives who voted on and sent this bill to the Governor.

Oh wait, you don't actually care, your just trying to distract from the point I made by asking a meaningless question in regards to this conversation.
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