These "parents" should face criminal charges - Page 4

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-27-2008, 07:12 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer

Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies

WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.

An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.

She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.

The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently.

"We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."

Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said.

The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.

Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl.

"My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."

The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent.

"Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."

The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital.

But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.

She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.

"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."

The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.

Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

And glad to do so!! We actually don't all have the opportunity to go around letting our children die when we could be saving their lives. Because you get thrown in jail for a long time because of that. For instance, if my wife and I had a baby, we could not thrown it in the crib and pray that God takes care of it while we are on vacation. That's just wrong. And other adjectives.

Your commentary has absolutely nothing to do with what has happened. The family in question did not abandon the kid, they were there doing everything that was in their power, according to their belief, to take care of their child.

You all are acting like they did something purposely to kill the kid and that is just not the case.

BigVE · 03-27-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Either we have freedom to practice our religion as we see fit or we don't. If we don't the constitution is null and void. This country was founded on the basis of freedom of religion. You might want to go back and check the original documents to verify that.

Nope, now your wrong. We have the right to practice our religion within the boundaries of our LAWS. IF you choose to practice a religion that condones murder THEN WHAT??

Third Eye · 03-27-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Either we have freedom to practice our religion as we see fit or we don't. If we don't the constitution is null and void. This country was founded on the basis of freedom of religion. You might want to go back and check the original documents to verify that.

Tell that to your friendly neighborhood satanist.

DenverChief · 03-27-2008, 08:31 PM

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/1997/august97/news.html

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Third Eye

Waco comes to mind.

Waco was a cult of fanatics lead by a fanatic that was charismatic and could convince others to follow blindly. They were armed and planned to defend themselves with force. Totally different scenario and in the same cult situation as Jim Jones and all of those that died in South America.

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVE

Nope, now your wrong. We have the right to practice our religion within the boundaries of our LAWS. IF you choose to practice a religion that condones murder THEN WHAT??

Tell me what law is on the books in the United States of America, or any individual state that forces you to see a doctor for any reason.

BigVE · 03-27-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Waco was a cult of fanatics lead by a fanatic that was charismatic and could convince others to follow blindly. They were armed and planned to defend themselves with force. Totally different scenario and in the same cult situation as Jim Jones and all of those that died in South America.

But but but...it was THEIR RELIGION that allowed/made them do it so it's ok. RIght?????

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverChief

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/1997/august97/news.html

Sorry, the link does not exude credibility in any form or fashion.

BigVE · 03-27-2008, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Tell me what law is on the books in the United States of America, or any individual state that forces you to see a doctor for any reason.

I call you a dumb@ss in the name of religion so I MUST be right since it's my RIGHT as an american. Have a nice day.

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVE

But but but...it was THEIR RELIGION that allowed/made them do it so it's ok. RIght?????

In waco they broke federal law. This couple did not break any laws that has been mentioned. You cannot force anyone to go to a doctor nor force them to take their family to a doctor.

mikey23545 · 03-27-2008, 08:34 PM

Believe it or not, this religious moron neg repped me for standing up for the rights of an innocent child.

Well, idiot, I am also diabetic, and thank GOD I had loving parents who got me the help I needed instead of letting me die as a child while praying to some Cosmic Tooth Fairy. Perhaps you haven't noticed that damn near the entire BB thinks you're an idiot, so I hope you're working double-time handing out that neg rep.

Oh, and right back at ya, moron.

Jenson71 · 03-27-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Your commentary has absolutely nothing to do with what has happened. The family in question did not abandon the kid, they were there doing everything that was in their power, according to their belief, to take care of their child.

How can you say that? Everything in their power would have been to pray 24/7 to God AND get quality medical help for their sick, vomiting, thirsty, dying child. My commentary is very similar.

mikey23545 · 03-27-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Link?

Third Eye · 03-27-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1na2

Waco was a cult of fanatics lead by a fanatic that was charismatic and could convince others to follow blindly. They were armed and planned to defend themselves with force. Totally different scenario and in the same cult situation as Jim Jones and all of those that died in South America.

If Koresh had just been a guy with a lot of guns and messianic complex, we would never have went near him. It was all the reports of child molestation (which turned out not to be true) that got the ball rolling.

a1na2 · 03-27-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVE

I call you a dumb@ss in the name of religion so I MUST be right since it's my RIGHT as an american. Have a nice day.

All that tells me is that you don't have an argument that can stand. There were no written laws broken.

I always have a nice day. I live, I am blessed and I am an American!

03-27-2008, 07:12 PM
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	These "parents" should face criminal charges http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/...s_death_prayer Parents pick prayer over docs; girl dies WESTON, Wis. - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor. An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said. She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney. The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors. She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently. "We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering." Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said. The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body. Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl. "My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith." The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked whether an ambulance should be sent. "Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now." The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Family friends also made a 911 call from the home. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital. But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead. She is survived by her parents and three older siblings. "We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time." The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway. Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."
Posts: 88,960

03-27-2008, 08:31 PM	#49
DenverChief MVP Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Rocky Ford Casino cash: $6069867	http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/1997/august97/news.html
Posts: 16,114

03-27-2008, 08:34 PM	#56
mikey23545 MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10015321	Believe it or not, this religious moron neg repped me for standing up for the rights of an innocent child. Well, idiot, I am also diabetic, and thank GOD I had loving parents who got me the help I needed instead of letting me die as a child while praying to some Cosmic Tooth Fairy. Perhaps you haven't noticed that damn near the entire BB thinks you're an idiot, so I hope you're working double-time handing out that neg rep. Oh, and right back at ya, moron.
Posts: 12,314

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