The teacher unions and Al Gore have ruined the public schools

[chiefinbc]

There is nothing more precious than the innocence and hope of a child.

It would be a travesty to continue to hold our next generation hostage to the raw, naked self-interest of the teacher unions and Al Gore.

GO CHIEFS!!

[Baby Lee]

Parker,
It's just where you & I disagree. Ask PostalChief, we're probably part of the same union.

[This message has been edited by Mi_chief_fan (edited 11-03-2000).]

MI,

I can respect that. You don't have much to work from other than personal experience. It's just that our own personal experiences have been different.

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

[milkman]

Mi - I have a friend who is a union stewerd(sp?) for the same place in which you speak. he says it breeds a very lazy grop of workers who ***** and complain about every little thing that they can. He said thta working around these overly lazy people has brought him down to their level, when he used to work his butt off at every job he had. He said that most people take advantage of the fact that they can't be fired for much of anything.

Sounds like a great plan for success to me.

[Baby Lee]

Morph,
Sounds like your friend works at a pretty large facility. I did too for a while, now i'm at a very small office. Less politics. Less fighting.

I'm not saying the union is perfect. Far from it. However, Morph, ask your friend how many times he has bailed someone out of a situation that should have been solved before he was brought into it.

Unions get a bad rap, but management should shoulder their share of the blame.

[milkman]

Mi - He says sometimes it does some good, but part of the problem is the employees as well. I will give you that there is no way that guys would get paid that much for that job if it wasn't for the unions. He actually works with PostalChief, well at least in the same building, too bad he is a damn donx fan.

[i]there is no way that guys would get paid that much for that job if it wasn't for the unions[/i]

granted, this used to be a problem, but in today's world what's wrong with getting paid what you're actually worth?

I get paid what I do because I work very, very hard to hone my skills, improve my productivity, and learn new ways of doing my job. How come I should get paid less than that guy, when I'm better at that job, just because he's in a union?

(I wanted to say "if you don't like the way management works, find a job where they do" but I didn't feel like starting that whole argument again. I get pounced on by all the liberals screaming that all the unfotunates can't just change jobs.)

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator[/b]

[This message has been edited by htismaqe (edited 11-03-2000).]

[jcl-kcfan]

Morph,
Where we work, it doesn't matter whether you're a top performer or a slug, non-union or union. We are all treated the same. Until management fixes that, it will always be that way.

[milkman]

HT - I have no problem with a person making what he can, that was actually a quote from my friend. He was complaining about the people complaining about useless little things when there is no way they could go out in the work force and make what they do here with the skills they have.

I would guess that you get your raises depending on time and probably a little bigger raise depending on quality and performance, in the case of the Post Office I don't think that holds true.

Postal,

Do you think the presence of a union encourages adversarial behavior on the part of management? (not a jab, a genuine question)

That being said, 1) I feel sorry for the guys that work they're asses off for nothing and 2) how does that encourage a good work ethic?

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Parker
[b]ChiefsPlanet Administrator</B>

[jcl-kcfan]

htismaqe,
Can't exactly answer your question because of the way the USPS chooses their management. Most, if not all, of our workfloor supervisors were once union employees. These individuals (at least the ones who supervise me) have had absolutely no management experience or training in interpersonal skills. The USPS does not properly train their employees. They just throw you out in the water and hope you can swim. Ask anyone who works there.

[Bob Dole]

Ok, I vowed to stay out of this but.

I am a member of the teacher's union. NOt for money...god knows that I am giving away my labor...but I have the security of 1 mill in malpractice insurance that being in the teachers union has afforded me.

<BR>

[Baby Lee]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> what's wrong with getting paid what your worth <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Parker, I'm not sure what your getting at, but if you listen to USPS propaganda from our last contract negotiations, we should be paid the same as pizza delivery drivers. If that were the case, they could stick this job up their a$$.

I also work very hard, and attend college full time. I really hope you weren't taking a shot at me & all hard working letter carriers.

[milkman]

PostalChief - The other problem is that the managment has no power, they can't say how many things you should be able to get done in a matter of time, it would be hard to be a manager that was just a figure to stand there and hope it scares you into working harder.

HT - I think you nailed the point I think I wanted to get across.

[jcl-kcfan]

Morph,
All management has to do is negotiate. I would love to agree on a standard of work ethic to maintain some consistency. And to be rewarded when we exceed expectations. Like any NORMAL company.

[Baby Lee]

Parker,
To answer one of your questions, union presence doesn't encourage adversial behavior; management's bonus system encourages this. They get paid a large bonus proportionate to the work we do. Yet, when raises come up in contract talks, they claim that they just can't afford it, even with record profits the past 6 years.