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Old 02-09-2006, 12:06 AM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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911 was an inside job.

After watching this, I am once and for all convinced that it was an inside job...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81991288263801


The evidence is way too strong.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:40 PM   #2191
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WAS THE WTC DEFECTIVELY DESIGNED?

The World Trade Center was not defectively designed. No designer of the WTC anticipated, nor should have anticipated, a 90,000 L Molotov cocktail on one of the building floors. Skyscrapers are designed to support themselves for three hours in a fire even if the sprinkler system fails to operate. This time should be long enough to evacuate the occupants. The WTC towers lasted for one to two hours—less than the design life, but only because the fire fuel load was so large. No normal office fires would fill 4,000 square meters of floor space in the seconds in which the WTC fire developed. Usually, the fire would take up to an hour to spread so uniformly across the width and breadth of the building. This was a very large and rapidly progressing fire (very high heat but not unusually high temperature). Further information about the design of the WTC can be found on the World Wide Web.

(this link has alot more stuff on it about how the fires weakened the structure and resulted int he eventual collapse.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom...agar-0112.html
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:41 PM   #2192
Tango&Cash Tango&Cash is offline
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So what's the deal with Cheney calling off NORAD and WTC Building 7 coming down?
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:42 PM   #2193
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
The skyscraper hasn't been built that's going to withstand an impact by a 200,000 pound aircraft.
Actually, from what I'm reading -- absent fires it's not much different from a needle flying into a net. Not really all that structurally significant.

The buildings fell down nearly two hours later becuase of the fires weakening the steel, not the initial impact.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:42 PM   #2194
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Originally Posted by Royal Fanatic View Post
We're obviously wasting our time here. Truthers don't want to know the truth. They don't want to be bothered with the facts. All they know is that by God, the government was behind 9/11.

Of course, now that we have a completely different administration in charge, it doesn't matter. The government is the government.
LOL, we've been wasting our time in this thread for 4 years.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:44 PM   #2195
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That already makes the article BOGUS, because, he implies something that can't take place. Again, jet fuel doesn't burn at 1800 degrees F... and yet, he references it, like it's part of his argument. His argument is based on nonsense, thus making it nil and void as evidence for his supposed case.
JFC, I realize it's probably asking too much to expect you to read the entire article about a subject that you claim you want to learn more about, but the least you could do is read the part that I quoted before you launch your attack on it.

It clearly states in the quoted section of the article that pockets of fire hit 1832 degrees.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:44 PM   #2196
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Thanks for proving you did not watch the NatGeo special on the topic. They placed jet fuel in a burm with a steel girder above it. The fuel ignited to well over 1800 degrees in less than three minutes. The girder twisted, allowing the weight it was supporting to collapse.

Of course the batshit crazy "truthers" they showed denied the plausibility while watching the video. I guess some people are so "open minded to the possibility" that any other possibility other than THEM DURN GUBMENTS DID ETT! is completely implausible.
I did watch it, but didn't agree with the way the experiment took place. It was an apples to oranges comparison. One beam, does not make a building. Plus, they put the fire directly under the exposed beam. Not every beam was exposed, the majority, weren't. Nevermind the concrete and rebar.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:46 PM   #2197
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
The most consequential designs that were not included in the Twin Towers were sufficient fire-suppression systems and fireproofing. Even though the towers were built to withstand the impact of a jetliner, they were not designed to withstand and remain standing during a fire of such great magnitude. The jet-fuel fire caused by the impact was impossible to contain in the Twin Towers. The World Trade Center had not been designed to fight hydrocarbon fires of such magnitude and high temperature – up to 1500 degrees Celsius. The fire-suppression system consisted of water sprinklers that were useless because water, at this temperature, would vaporize almost instantly. Instead, these fires had to be fought with chemical foam, which the Towers lacked (Ashley 2001).

The fireproofing system in the Towers was also insufficient. First, the Towers were lightweight because of their extensive use of steel and were devoid of masonry or concrete which made them difficult to insulate from the fire. Second, a more sophisticated fireproofing system could have been incorporated during the building process. Most of the supports and trusses could have been coated with extra fire proofing material (Ashley 2001). Third, the World Trade Center incorporated a novel, yet very flammable, elevator system (Wilkinson 2002). The engineers worried that, without masonry, the conventional elevator shafts would buckle and collapse with the intense air pressure exerted by the high speed elevators. To solve this problem the engineers used a drywall/plaster system fixed to a reinforced steel core; this made the shafts more flexible though much more flammable (Wilkinson 2002).


Another design shortcoming that made the ensuing fire even more destructive was the use of weak floor trusses which spanned abnormally long distances (Ashley 2001). In the Twin Towers the steel trusses spanned nearly sixty feet without any support and were only four inches thick (Federal Emergency Management Agency 2002). The extremely high-temperature fire heated the relatively thin floor rapidly, making the floor almost flexible because it lost most of its rigidity and consequently buckled. Since the floor buckled, the extra support needed to come from the remaining exterior perimeter columns, but many had been destroyed by the planes’ initial impact. But those columns also depended on the core steel columns for support, but these columns were being subjected to extremely harsh conditions of the fire and were failing themselves. The exterior columns began to buckle onto the floor which buckled on the floor beneath and started a gigantic domino effect of the plunging stories. So, in effect, the fire caused all structural supports to weaken and fail within the Twin Towers.
Fire was the Achilles heel of the World Trade Center Twin Towers, for they did not have sufficient fireproofing nor fire-suppression systems. Designers of future skyscrapers may install retrofitted aqueous film-forming foam extinguishers, similar to those used for aviation fires, to enhance fire safety in future projects. In addition, new high rises may have plans that have more evacuation sites as well as possible external ways like giant escape tubes or parachutes (Ashley 2001). In the future, architects, engineers, designers, and builders will look to further the safety and security to all those in skyscrapers and learn from the events of September 11.
http://www.science-writing.org/id29.html
That's one of the best explanations, I've seen to support the collapse by fire, but I'm still skeptical. The building fell in on itself, like an implosion. The law of physics says that can't take place without strategically placed charges. Again, the plane only breeched, less than 10% of the building.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:46 PM   #2198
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Hey BigChiefFan,

Are you ever going to get to the part that sounds like you're not crazy? You're losing me.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:47 PM   #2199
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Originally Posted by Tango&Cash View Post
So what's the deal with Cheney calling off NORAD and WTC Building 7 coming down?
WTC 7 Collapse
Claim: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."


Fire Storm: WTC 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed Twin Towers. Damaged by falling debris, the building then endures a fire that rages for hours. Experts say this combination, not a demolition-style implosion, led to the roofline "kink" that signals WTC 7's progressive collapse. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)

FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."

There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building's unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:47 PM   #2200
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Originally Posted by BigChiefFan View Post
That's one of the best explanations, I've seen to support the collapse by fire, but I'm still skeptical. The building fell in on itself, like an implosion. The law of physics says that can't take place without strategically placed charges. Again, the plane only breeched, less than 10% of the building.
That's not correct. The floors above the impact came down on top of the floors below it. What law of physics are you referring to?
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:48 PM   #2201
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Originally Posted by Tango&Cash View Post
So what's the deal with Cheney calling off NORAD and WTC Building 7 coming down?
No idea what NORAD is about.

WTC 7 was compromised by falling debris into something like a quarter of its outer walls, and had uncontrolled fires, the fighting of which was exacerbated by low water pressure, a manual rather than automatic sprinkler system, and other sprinkler system design issues.

The fire also went unchecked for a very, very long time.

Last, but not least -- what is the Truthers' theory for why this building came down? If it was part of a conspiracy, wouldn't the conspirators have been smart enough to aim a plane at it to give at least a plausible reason for it to fall down? I mean, an alternative explanation is necessary to fit into whatever grand scheme is contemplated by the Truthers, no?
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:48 PM   #2202
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That's one of the best explanations, I've seen to support the collapse by fire, but I'm still skeptical. The building fell in on itself, like an implosion. The law of physics says that can't take place without strategically placed charges. Again, the plane only breeched, less than 10% of the building.
Which "law of physics" would that be?
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:51 PM   #2203
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LOL, we've been wasting our time in this thread for 4 years.
What I wonder is would this thread have had this life or even been started if a democrat would have been in office.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:52 PM   #2204
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
No idea what NORAD is about.
http://www.truthout.org/article/nora...e-been-stopped
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:53 PM   #2205
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The skyscraper hasn't been built that's going to withstand an impact by a 200,000 pound aircraft.
The majority of which is light-weight, Aluminum.

If you believe the OFFICIAL story, than you actually believe a plane can take down the largest building in the world, but TOTALLY DISENEGRATES upon impact at the PENTAGON. That's a major contradiction.

THINK, PEOPLE. THINK.


See, what I'm saying? The story doesn't add up. They expect you to believe one thing for one group of buildings and entirely DIFFERENT story under the SAME CIRCUMSTANCES.
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