KU ***** Official 2016/2017 Kansas Basketball Repository Thread ***** - Page 226

saphojunkie · 11:59 AM

Now with 800% more crapshoot!

Roster:

Spoiler!

SCHEDULE

Spoiler!

Notable dates:

Late Night in the Phog
Oct 1 6:30 PM
Allen Fieldhouse
Students enter at 4:30PM, general public at 5:00 PM

Champions Classic:
Nov 15, 2016 - Madison Square Garden. KU vs. Duke

CBE Hall of Fame Classic:
semis & finals at Sprint Center in KC.
Nov 21 - 22 (early games date & time ).

Armed Forces Classic
Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickham, Hawai`i: Nov. 11 (ESPN)
Indiana vs. Kansas
Arizona vs. Michigan State

BIG 12/SEC CHALLENGE
Kansas vs. Kentucky
Rupp Arena, Lexington, KY
Jan 28, 2017

Let's go get Lucky 13. And a damn National Championship.

O.city · 03-28-2017, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMeatballBillay

Losing Danny Manning did hurt him though. Hasn't developed a big man since.

True.

They kind of got burned with embiid blowing up like he did, I think they thought he'd be around a few years.

Other than that though, their bigs haven't developed much.

**SAUTO** · 03-28-2017, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

2FF in 14 years at Kansas isn't impressive at all. Oh well, Pants and Buehler can beat off about the Farmer League trophies a bit more. (Of course, Oregon woulda won it this year. And Nova last year. And....)

Jesus Christ..

Mr. Laz · 03-28-2017, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickhead

if self was in roy's shoe's now, he would have won four titles by now. this was my point about the big 12 being soft compared to coastal conferences.

I don't get it. You think the Big 12 being too easy is holding KU back?

Teams play too many out-of-conference games now for that to be true. imo.

We played Duke,Kentucky,Indiana in the regular season

Big 12 was 8-3 in NCAA Tournament this year

I just don't see such an extreme schedule softness to cause a problem. Big 12 has KU,Baylor and West Virginia this year that are solid teams.

Sounds like an excuse to me.

Lex Luthor · 03-28-2017, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

2FF in 14 years at Kansas isn't impressive at all. Oh well, Pants and Buehler can beat off about the Farmer League trophies a bit more. (Of course, Oregon woulda won it this year. And Nova last year. And....)

And you can continue to be as much of a total dumbass in this thread as you are in the DC forum.

Messier · 03-28-2017, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

True.

They kind of got burned with embiid blowing up like he did, I think they thought he'd be around a few years.

Other than that though, their bigs haven't developed much.

Hopefully Azubuike changes that.

Mr. Laz · 03-28-2017, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants

People who don't think Bill Self is a top 5 coach in the country are out of their minds.

Bill Self not an elite coach. How ****ing spoiled and entitled can you get?

Who's spoiled?

The people that think their coach is perfect.

or

The people who try to critique their coach just like all the rest.

Is there such a thing as a perfect coach?

If I'm spoiled then you're arrogant.

Prison Bitch · 03-28-2017, 08:42 AM

Ted Owens had 2 in 19 years, Bill 2 in 14. Hard to believe.

Mr. Plow · 03-28-2017, 09:11 AM

Self has played to go to the Final Four 7 of 14 years. Roy Williams has played to go the Final Four 8 of 14 years. That's pretty damn impressive for both coaches. The question i ask is why does it seem Self's teams struggle in the elite eight?

Mr. Laz · 03-28-2017, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow

Self has played to go to the Final Four 7 of 14 years. Roy Williams has played to go the Final Four 8 of 14 years. That's pretty damn impressive for both coaches. The question i ask is why does it seem Self's teams struggle in the elite eight?

It's becoming a national question, not just for KU fans.

When bracket time comes around, people are starting to predict a KU loss. It's becoming the norm, not the exception. That will start to effect recruiting eventually.

sedated · 03-28-2017, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

When bracket time comes around, people are starting to predict a KU loss. It's becoming the norm, not the exception. That will start to effect recruiting eventually.

Not winning a title every year is becoming the norm??? Oh the humanity.

**Buehler445** · 03-28-2017, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

2FF in 14 years at Kansas isn't impressive at all. Oh well, Pants and Buehler can beat off about the Farmer League trophies a bit more. (Of course, Oregon woulda won it this year. And Nova last year. And....)

Look man, losing sucks. And I ****ing hate it. This year especially because there were no really dominant teams in our way to a title. Especially after NOVA went down.

But to say it is Self's fault is epic stupid ass. Teams miss shots dude. Bad shooting nights happen. It wasn't scheme, we were getting our looks, it wasn't Self telling these guys to choke or whatever the **** else you think it is. Shots didn't go down man. It happens. It's like Freethrows. Everybody should make every freethrow. Ever. That is just muscle memory and it even looks the same everytime. But virtually nobody shoots better than 85%. Missed shots and shooting nights happen.

But noooooooo. That's not good enough for PB, he has to throw stats out there like they're ****ing TROOF MOTHA****ERS, but then completely abandons an argument when asked about statistical significance about the numbers he's throwing around like everyone should know them as truth.

Then BY GOD Roy is better. Oh wait, he was essentially Self at KU? Fine. WE NEED SQUEAKY UP IN THIS BITCH. Oh Squeaky sucks? FINE.

BUEHLER AND DA PANTS LOVE DA FARM LEAGUE, YO.

Get the **** out of here with that shit. I like you and I usually like your takes, but you're off base here man. This stuff happens to other teams, too and yeah, it makes you want to beat your head against the wall, but to pretend like Self is some schlub of an in-game coach is just damn ignorant. Then to try to pile on me and pretend like I'm some guy that doesn't care about the dance because we won the conference? **** that.

I've been hard on Self for some things - focusing too much on the post game when it isn't working, not running a press for a few possessions when you need to change the tide of a game, not selling out on a hot shooter in favor of helping down low. But to draw a correlation from losing to put it on Self is just dumb.

You're better than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMeatballBillay

Losing Danny Manning did hurt him though. Hasn't developed a big man since.

Losing Manning was a giant deal, and it hasn't been that good since. But there are some mind boggling things that happen. For instance, I'm not sure there are more than 8 or 10 post guys in college basketball that are comfortable scoring with their back to the basket. Cliff is what opened my eyes to it. Dude just wouldn't make a ****ing move if there was a guy behind him, even if it was a 6'6 schlub. It drove me crazy. But the game has changed. A lot. There isn't a lot of basketball played through the post with their back to the basket. Teams are trying to get stretch guys to spread the floor and then score off cuts and off the bounce. Even my hometown coach that taught me all the post moves that I learned isn't running near as much through the post anymore.

That doesn't excuse Lucas' inability to keep his base. And overall, offensively and defensively, Manning's loss is a big one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

It's becoming a national question, not just for KU fans.

When bracket time comes around, people are starting to predict a KU loss. It's becoming the norm, not the exception. That will start to effect recruiting eventually.

Right and it very well might be, but nobody has presented me with any evidence that is a systemic problem that Self is responsible for. There has been some talk about advance scouting and some looking ahead which might be as plausable as anything.

But the big deal is Self always has a 1 or 2 seed, so really all he can do is meet expectations or underachieve. Whereas other teams get lower seeds with bad years, so they get a repreave from the pressure.

Prison Bitch · 03-28-2017, 11:36 AM

Hey, I don't think you're wrong if you love the guy. But why do y'all get so **pissed** at those of us who don't? Why is that so offensive? I'll never get it.

He's demoralized a chunk of our fanbase with these flameouts. This was the first year in my life (even toddler years, even when I lived away) I didn't go to AFH. I knew the ending would be the same: him staring clueless and emotionless on the sideline in an NCAAT loss to a veteran coach.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do wonder what qualification you have to tell me I am.

Mr. Plow · 03-28-2017, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Hey, I don't think you're wrong if you love the guy. But why do y'all get so **pissed** at those of us who don't? Why is that so offensive? I'll never get it.

He's demoralized a chunk of our fanbase with these flameouts. This was the first year in my life (even toddler years, even when I lived away) I didn't go to AFH. I knew the ending would be the same: him staring clueless and emotionless on the sideline in an NCAAT loss to a veteran coach.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do wonder what qualification you have to tell me I am.

Some judge the season on whether or not their team wins a 6 game tournament. Most judge the season as a whole.

Of course everyone wants championships, but that doesn't diminish the regular season accomplishments & certainly doesn't make a season bad because they didn't win the championship.

**Buehler445** · 03-28-2017, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Hey, I don't think you're wrong if you love the guy. But why do y'all get so **pissed** at those of us who don't? Why is that so offensive? I'll never get it.

He's demoralized a chunk of our fanbase with these flameouts. This was the first year in my life (even toddler years, even when I lived away) I didn't go to AFH. I knew the ending would be the same: him staring clueless and emotionless on the sideline in an NCAAT loss to a veteran coach.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do wonder what qualification you have to tell me I am.

I didn't get fiesty until you posted this. Prior to that, I was just discussing it with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

2FF in 14 years at Kansas isn't impressive at all. Oh well, Pants and Buehler can beat off about the Farmer League trophies a bit more. (Of course, Oregon woulda won it this year. And Nova last year. And....)

Here is a pretty good chuck of the discussion. I went back through this thread to make sure I didn't get too far out of line. I'll go back through the NCAA thread (I think that's where the Roy thing came in), but it looks to me like you were the one telling everyone they were wrong and being pissed.

If I came across as anything except talking ball I apologize. It wasn't intentional. I was just talking about what you were posting. If you're going to make an assertion and don't expect people to discuss it, I can't really help you. I'll go back through the NCAA thread, but I don't recall being pissy there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Jesus Bill Self is a loser

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

At this point the only people who don't know that are blind KU homers. Self didn't just lose a home game last night - he was throttled. A 14-pt pasting, when he was favored by 7.5. He's a joke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Tard^ (not referring to me)

Bill is 2-6 as an EE favorite. Rational people (of which you are not) think that's a bad stat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Self is a nasty March choker. The only people who don't think that are KU homers. Conventional wisdom normally has some basis to it.

He's 33-13 in the NCAAT here. That's 6 full wins under his expected win total given seed. That's hideous and he can't hide from that.

KU fans are content winning the Farmer League. (A collection of football schools who have as many FF combined the last 13 years as South Carolina). They convince themselves "Wow, But-Uh Bill is a genius for handling Press Virginia and those pesky Boo-clones!" It's all a crapshoot in March anyway.....despite the data saying he's coming up wayyyy too short in the luck category

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Right. So how do you explain the trend of Self being 3-0 against Roy (in the tournament mind you) who you said you think he could have won it all?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

So you can't support your statistical analysis and you're throwing shit at the wall? Cool man.

Look man, I don't want to fight. But to assert that Bill Self is anything but a great coach is a tough ask.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Really? Squeaky is a horrible game day coach. He had a player foul out with just under 9:00 left in the game (Uwundu maybe?). I ****ing hate that dribble around and go one on one :25 into the shotclock and chuck up a shitterrible shot. More importantly KU executes KSU very much does not.

Bruce is a window licking mongoloid compared to Selfs in game coaching.

I haven't watched enough of Beilein to know. But if he's on the same level as Squeaky no thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Dude. Watch KSU play. They don't execute worth a ****. At anything. He gets guys to hustle and Guys have developed there but they can't move the ball. They can't even screen right. I once watched Dean Wade jog over and not get within 5 feet of the guy he was supposed to be screening. As much has everybody hates Lucas that type of shit would drive us all crazy.

And he doesn't run a ****ing set. They just dribble around and try to break guys down.

If you think Squeaky is a better game day coach than Self you don't watch KSU ball. Even KU vs KSU it's easy to see.

**Buehler445** · 03-28-2017, 12:17 PM

Here is our dialogue in the NCAAT thread. Again, I wasn't telling anyone they were super wrong for not bowing at the altar of Self.

I'm sorry if I came off as a dick, but if you're going to post stuff on a discussion board saying our coach is a hack, I'll probably go through the details and refute your claim if it needs it. Once again, I didn't get pissy until you threw out your snide remark.

Even then, I posted that I didn't want to fight, but you're off base on this one, and you just kept digging because you really want to blame it on Self.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

I ***think*** Roy would've won here but we can't know that. We do know Bill bagged it and for that I'm grateful (plus I was there). Still tho....this weekend sucked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Alright, I'll quit being a prick about it, but look guys, here are the stats.

Roy
Time: 15 years
Record: 418-101 (.805)
Conference Titles: 9
Final Fours: 4
Titles: 0

Bill
Time: 14 years
Record: 416-87 (.827)
Conference Titles: 13
Final Fours: 2
Titles: 1

BCJ: Your assertion that UNC was a promotion, suggests that the universities aren't the same, so looking at their time in Kansas, I fail to see how you can say Roy is the better coach. You must be looking at the tournament, because he doesn't have as good of overall record (and that dude schedules some CUPCAKES), or conference titles. But if all that matters is March, how can you put Roy over Bill when Bill won the whole thing. You're saying Roy is better, I don't see it. Yeah, 2 more Final Fours, but no rings, and there were several years, where he fielded not-so-good teams. Self is looked at as an underachiever, because his teams are so consistently ****ing awesome that in the years that he doesn't win the title, he can do nothing but underachieve. He's never in a position to overachieve and not underachieving means winning a title, which is hard to do.

I get that Roy has had more success at UNC, but I don't think you can use those statistics as a comparison, when his tenure at KU is far more comparable, and it leans toward Bill.

PB: you're bagging on Bill pretty hard in the KU thread, but if Roy DIDN'T win in 15 years, what makes you think he could have? I'm sure if Self was here 15 years and hadn't won it, you'd be crowing about how if a guy can't do it in 14 years he never will. Looking at their extremely comparable side-by-sides, I'll have Self.

But yeah, this weekend sucked, but I posted yesterday a bunch of teams that this loss probably sucked less than.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

I don't think Roy is even a better coach than Self. He just coaches at the easiest place to recruit to. I could land 3 Mickey D's each year there

04-07-2016, 12:22 PM
saphojunkie MVP Join Date: Aug 2011 Casino cash: $4786250	*** Official 2016-2017 Kansas Basketball Repository Thread * Now with 800% more crapshoot! Roster: Spoiler! RETURNING PLAYERS: Frank Mason, sr. Landen Lucas, sr. Devonte Graham, jr. Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, jr. Dwight Coleby, jr. Carlton Bragg, soph. Legerald Vick, sop. Tyler Self, sr. Clay Young, RS JR. INCOMING PLAYERS: Josh Jackson - Rivals #1 player, ESPN100 #3 overall player Udoka Azubuike, fr. Mitch Lightfoot, fr. Evan Maxwell, jr. (sits out year due to transfer rules) Malik Newman, RSSOPH (sits out year due to transfer rules) SCHEDULE Spoiler! WASHBURN (EXH.) TUE, NOVEMBER 1 LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE VS. EMPORIA STATE (EXH) MON, NOVEMBER 7 LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE ARMED FORCES CLASSIC INDIANA FRI, NOVEMBER 11 HONOLULU, HAWAII JOINT BASE PEARL HARBOR-HICKAM STATE FARM CHAMPIONS CLASSIC CHAMPIONS CLASSIC DUKE TUE, NOVEMBER 15 NEW YORK, N.Y. MADISON SQUARE GARDEN VS. SIENA FRI, NOVEMBER 18 LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE CBE HALL OF FAME CLASSIC MON, NOVEMBER 21 TBA TUE, NOVEMBER 22 TBA KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER VS. UNC ASHEVILLE FRI, NOVEMBER 25 LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE VS. LONG BEACH STATE TUE, NOVEMBER 29 LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE VS. STANFORD SAT, DECEMBER 3 LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE VS. UMKC TUE, DECEMBER 6 LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE VS. NEBRASKA SAT, DECEMBER 10 LAWRENCE, KAN. ALLEN FIELDHOUSE JAYHAWK SHOOTOUT DAVIDSON SAT, DECEMBER 17 KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER @ UNLV THU, DECEMBER 22 LAS VEGAS, NEV. THOMAS & MACK CENTER SONIC SEC/BIG 12 CHALLENGE BIG12/SEC CHALLENGE @ KENTUCKY SAT, JANUARY 28 LEXINGTON, KY RUPP ARENA TV: ESPN/2/U CONFERENCE SCHEDULE TBA PHILLIPS 66 BIG 12 CHAMPIONSHIP FIRST ROUND WED, MARCH 8 KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER QUARTERFINALS THU, MARCH 9 KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER SEMIFINALS FRI, MARCH 10 KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER FINAL SAT, MARCH 11 KANSAS CITY, MO. SPRINT CENTER NCAA MEN'S BASKELL CHAMPIONSHIP FIRST ROUND THU, MARCH 16 - FRI, MARCH 17 SECOND ROUND SAT, MARCH 18 - SUN, MARCH 19 SWEET SIXTEEN THU, MARCH 23 - FRI, MARCH 24 ELITE EIGHT SAT, MARCH 25 - SUN, MARCH 26 FINAL FOUR - GLENDALE, ARIZ. UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX STADIUM FINAL FOUR SAT, APRIL 1 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP MON, APRIL 3 GLENDALE, ARIZ. UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX STADIUM Notable dates:** Late Night in the Phog Oct 1 6:30 PM Allen Fieldhouse Students enter at 4:30PM, general public at 5:00 PM Champions Classic: Nov 15, 2016 - Madison Square Garden. KU vs. Duke CBE Hall of Fame Classic: semis & finals at Sprint Center in KC. Nov 21 - 22 (early games date & time ). Armed Forces Classic Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickham, Hawai`i: Nov. 11 (ESPN) Indiana vs. Kansas Arizona vs. Michigan State BIG 12/SEC CHALLENGE Kansas vs. Kentucky Rupp Arena, Lexington, KY Jan 28, 2017 Let's go get Lucky 13. And a damn National Championship. Last edited by saphojunkie; 07-01-2016 at 11:59 AM..
Posts: 12,516

03-28-2017, 08:42 AM	#3382
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	Ted Owens had 2 in 19 years, Bill 2 in 14. Hard to believe.
Posts: 87,025

03-28-2017, 09:11 AM	#3383
Mr. Plow In Search of a Life Join Date: Dec 2005 Casino cash: $2017391	Self has played to go to the Final Four 7 of 14 years. Roy Williams has played to go the Final Four 8 of 14 years. That's pretty damn impressive for both coaches. The question i ask is why does it seem Self's teams struggle in the elite eight?
Posts: 30,802

03-28-2017, 11:36 AM	#3387
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	Hey, I don't think you're wrong if you love the guy. But why do y'all get so pissed at those of us who don't? Why is that so offensive? I'll never get it. He's demoralized a chunk of our fanbase with these flameouts. This was the first year in my life (even toddler years, even when I lived away) I didn't go to AFH. I knew the ending would be the same: him staring clueless and emotionless on the sideline in an NCAAT loss to a veteran coach. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do wonder what qualification you have to tell me I am.
Posts: 87,025