If Jesus were to ever return... how would anyone know it was him?

[jAZ]

I'm pretty sure this guy isn't it, but there's a sizeable group that seems to think he is. Seems like all you have to do is be believable and with enough followers... you create your own "reality".

If that's the case, how in the world would we ever know objectively that someone is Jesus returned?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/16/mia...her/index.html

Pastor with 666 tattoo claims to be divine
POSTED: 2:08 p.m. EST, February 19, 2007

By John Zarrella and Patrick Oppmann
CNN

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- The minister has the number 666 tattooed on his arm.

But Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda is not your typical minister. De Jesus, or "Daddy" as his thousands of followers call him, does not merely pray to God: He says he is God.

"The spirit that is in me is the same spirit that was in Jesus of Nazareth," de Jesus says.

De Jesus' claims of divinity have angered Christian leaders, who say he is a fake. Religious experts say he may be something much more dangerous, a cult leader who really believes he is God. (Watch followers get 666 tattoos for their leader )

"He's in their heads, he's inside the heads of those people," says Prof. Daniel Alvarez, a religion expert at Florida International University who has debated some of de Jesus' followers.

"De Jesus speaks with a kind of conviction that makes me consider him more like David Koresh or Jim Jones."

Is de Jesus really a cult leader like David Koresh, who died with more than 70 of his Branch Davidian followers in a fiery end to a standoff with federal authorities, or Jim Jones, the founder of the Peoples Temple who committed mass suicide with 900 followers in 1978?

Prophets 'spoke to me'
De Jesus and his believers say their church -- "Creciendo en Gracia," Spanish for "Growing in grace" -- is misunderstood. Followers of the movement say they have proof that their minister is divine and that their church will one day soon be a major faith in the world.

But even de Jesus concedes that he is an unlikely leader of a church that claims thousands of members in more than 30 countries.

De Jesus, 61, grew up poor in Puerto Rico. He says he served stints in prison there for petty theft and says he was a heroin addict.

De Jesus says he learned he was Jesus reincarnate when he was visited in a dream by angels.

"The prophets, they spoke about me. It took me time to learn that, but I am what they were expecting, what they have been expecting for 2,000 years," de Jesus says.

The church that he began building 20 years ago in Miami resembles no other:


Followers have protested Christian churches in Miami and Latin America, disrupting services and smashing crosses and statues of Jesus.


De Jesus preaches there is no devil and no sin. His followers, he says, literally can do no wrong in God's eyes.


The church calls itself the "Government of God on Earth" and uses a seal similar to the United States.

Doing God's work with a Lexus and Rolex
If Creciendo en Gracia is an atypical religious group, de Jesus also does not fit the mold of the average church leader. De Jesus flouts traditional vows of poverty.

He says he has a church-paid salary of $136,000 but lives more lavishly than that. During an interview, he showed off a diamond-encrusted Rolex to a CNN crew and said he has three just like them. He travels in armored Lexuses and BMWs, he says, for his safety. All are gifts from his devoted followers.

And what about the tattoo of 666 on his arm?

Although it's a number usually associated with Satan, not the son of God, de Jesus says that 666 and the Antichrist are, like him, misunderstood.

The Antichrist is not the devil, de Jesus tells his congregation; he's the being who replaces Jesus on Earth.

"Antichrist is the best person in the world," he says. "Antichrist means don't put your eyes on Jesus because Jesus of Nazareth wasn't a Christian. Antichrist means do not put your eyes on Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Put it on Jesus after the cross."

And de Jesus says that means him.

So far, de Jesus says that his flock hasn't been scared off by his claims of being the Antichrist. In a show of the sway he holds over the group, 30 members of his congregation Tuesday went to a tattoo parlor to have 666 also permanently etched onto their skin.

He may wield influence over them, but his followers say don't expect them to go the way of people who believed in David Koresh and Jim Jones. Just by finding de Jesus, they say, they have achieved their purpose.

"If somebody tells us drink some Kool-Aid and we'll go to heaven, that's not true. We are already in heavenly places," follower Martita Roca told CNN after having 666 tattooed onto her ankle.

[FAX]

Lens Jesus.

"Where There Is No Vision, The People Perish. And, That's Our Promise."

FAX

[Imon Yourside]

Comprehension is such a beautiful thing, i'm sure Jesus will bear the mark of the beast.

[RJ]

Originally Posted by FAX

With all respect, Mr. RJ, I'm not sure an optometrist slogan suggesting the plucking out of offending eyes is going to bring in much business.

FAX

Did I mention the free eyeglass case?

[listopencil]

You are all going to Hell.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Is the J man back yet?

[El Jefe]

InChiefsHell, the left behind series is bad theology as is the rapture itself". You do not have a clue what you are talking about Left Behind theology is very close, and as for the rapture it will happen just like it says in the bible. Stewie "werent you suppose to catch a ride behind a comet a few years back", I do not have a clue what you are talking about.

[CoMoChief]

I imagine Jesus as a mischievous badger.

[Mr. Kotter]

I hate to admit it, but I use to love this song....



If God had a name what would it be?
And would you call it to his face?
If you were faced with him
In all his glory
What would you ask if you had just one question?

*And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
Yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home

If God had a face what would it look like?
And would you want to see
If seeing meant that
you would have to believe
in things like heaven and in Jesus and the saints
and all the prophets (*)

Trying to make his way home
Back up to heaven all alone
Nobody calling on the phone
'cept for the Pope maybe in Rome(*)

Just trying to make his way home
Like a holy rolling stone
Back up to heaven all alone
Just trying to make his way home
Nobody calling on the phone
'cept for the Pope maybe in Rome

[El Jefe]

CoMoChief, you are stupid.

[El Jefe]

Mr. Cooter, I think that song sucks.

[Mr. Laz]

if Jesus was ever to return he'd be scorned by the religious right as a tree huggin' liberal. He'd be labeled soft on crime, and they would claim he didn't support the troops because he didn't like war.

[Iowanian]

I don't think it will be difficult.

He'll be the guy moonwalking across Lake Tahoe, farting lightening thunder right after the sky opens and an angry God says "Don't Make me Come Down there!"

[El Jefe]

Listen you guys dont really get it. From a Christian perspective he will come back for one reason and that is to bring us back with him to heaven. He isnt gonna be living down here or anything he is gonna come back to get us, so nobody will think anything about him because he will take us back in the twinkling of an eye. Iowanian, that isnt very funny.

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by kcchiefsfanGoLJ

Listen you guys dont really get it. From a Christian perspective he will come back for one reason and that is to bring us back with him to heaven. He isnt gonna be living down here or anything he is gonna come back to get us, so nobody will think anything about him because he will take us back in the twinkling of an eye. Iowanian, that isnt very funny.

You need to lighten up man. Or you could just go away.

[FAX]

I liked that song, too, Mr. Kotter.

But, I really liked the girl who sang it. I heard her wailing out some blues on an underground radio program once. She has great pipes.

FAX