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Old 12-22-2014, 02:48 PM  
Hootie Hootie is offline
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Tom Brady; least clutch QB in NFL history?

(Slow day at work for me, guys):

Tom Brady:

2005: Gets crushed by Jake Plummer and the Denver Broncos. Plays HORRENDOUSLY. Embarrassingly bad.

2006: Blows an 18 point lead to Peyton Manning in the AFCCG. Plays horrendously, and ends the game in Indy territory throwing a game ending INT to Marlon Jackson. Great clutch play.

2007: 18-1. Scores 14 points in the Super Bowl in a game they are favored to win by 13.5. Also, in the AFCCG against the Chargers, he posted a QB rating of 18 and threw 3 INT's. Very clutch, I know.

2008: KNEE CRUSHER; Cassel wins 11 games as starting QB.

2009: Gets OBLITERATED by Joe Flacco and the Ravens. Loses the game single-handedly in the 1st quarter and posts a WHOPPING QBR OF 4.2. Not a typo. FOUR POINT TWO. FOUR POINT TWO. In reference, Peyton posted a 24.4 last year against Seattle in the Super Bowl. So picture how bad that performance was, and multiply it by about 25.

2010: Lost @ home to MARK SANCHEZ AND THE JETS. But don't worry guys, Tom Brady doubled his QBR in this one and posted a respectable 8.7 EIGHT POINT SEVEN.

2011: Got to the Super Bowl by beating Tim Tebow, playing HORRENDOUSLY against the Ravens (again) in the Lee Evans game, and then overthrowing Welker to lose another Super Bowl. Clutch.

2012: Got obliterated by Joe Flacco and the Ravens despite being favored by 7. He posted a respectable 40 QBR, though, and only lost by 15 ... despite Peyton beating the team the week before only to be Rahim Moore'd. Great clutch play.

2013: Beat Andrew Luck despite throwing 0 TD's. Lost to Peyton Manning, while playing another mediocre game. 1 TD. Very clutch, Mr. Brady!

So, in short, the biggest playoff choking QB in the NFL right now is Tom Brady. In all of those aforementioned choke jobs, he was favored to lose TWICE, both to Peyton Manning (both losses).

Any more myths you want be to bust?

4.2 QBR and 8.7 QBR is Rex Grossman bad, in case anyone wanted a reference point.
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:45 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
He's not, actually. This is a recurring theme. He desperately wants to show that Peyton is the GOAT, and to do that he needs to rip down Brady. So he does, every chance he gets.
Okay... That seems a little weird.
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:51 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Okay... That seems a little weird.

Yeah, I know. He will actually admit that Brady is elite, and refer to him as the SECOND best QB he has ever seen, but in his maniacal effort to bolster Peyton's claim as GOAT, he feels the need to rip Brady.

He's especially frustrated because Peyton gets hit with the choker label, while Brady does not, despite the 10 year SB drought. There's reasons for that, of course -- like the fact that Brady, unlike Manning, does NOT have: pick sixes in SBs, or being slaughtered 43-8 in Super Bowls, and being one-and-done depsite the 2nd ranked defense in the NFL, and a losing record in the playoffs, etc. etc., but it drives him absolutely insane.
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:52 PM   #48
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I cherry picked 10 straight years of playoff performances where he lost 6 favored playoff games and 2 other underdog games against Peyton Manning, the biggest postseason choker ever according to this board?

I cherry picked his 4 and 8 QBR in 2 games he was favored by 8 and 13 @ home and lost to Flacco and Sanchez?

WHAT
IN
THE
****

How do you cherry pick 10 straight years of consistent postseason letdown?
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:54 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
Yeah, I know. He will actually admit that Brady is elite, and refer to him as the SECOND best QB he has ever seen, but in his maniacal effort to bolster Peyton's claim as GOAT, he feels the need to rip Brady.

He's especially frustrated because Peyton gets hit with the choker label, while Brady does not, despite the 10 year SB drought. There's reasons for that, of course -- like the fact that Brady, unlike Manning, does NOT have: pick sixes in SBs, or being slaughtered 43-8 in Super Bowls, and being one-and-done depsite the 2nd ranked defense in the NFL, and a losing record in the playoffs, etc. etc., but it drives him absolutely insane.
Brady lost to Sanchez at home and had a 4 QBR
Brady lost to Flacco at home and had an 8 QBR

these are 1 and dones when they were heavily favored postseason favorites

Manning lost in the Super Bowl to Seattle last year and still managed to put up a 25 QBR

I'll take the Super Bowl collapse over losing a game where I'm a 13.5 favorite to go 19-0

I'd say Brady was the bigger choke between those two.
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:55 PM   #50
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10 straight years of postseason ineptitude.

At best, Tom is equal to Peyton in postseason choking.

I think Tom is probably the bigger choker considering he hasn't beaten Peyton when it counted since the Patriots were breaking rules (Spygate) and had the 2nd most elite defense in the NFL in the past 20 years according to Pats fans on this board
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:56 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
It's so typically hootie to cherry pick a few games and call it an argument. Tom Brady is still winning playoff games with a kmart supporting cast. That team wouldn't be doing shit without him.
a few games?!?!

A FEW GAMES?

How is that 'A FEW GAMES.'

?
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:56 PM   #52
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Wait, Brady is a bigger choker than Manning?

How does one even begin to contemplate that, let alone make a thread about it?
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:57 PM   #53
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Hootie, would you agree that Brady was very much clutch during the SB wins?
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:57 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Wait, Brady is a bigger choker than Manning?

How does one even begin to contemplate that, let alone make a thread about it?
So now getting to the SB more and winning more = more of a choker?...

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Old 12-22-2014, 03:59 PM   #55
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Donger, I'm glad you're weighing in, considering you don't watch football.

I posted every postseason exit Brady has had from 2005 - 2013.

It is not even an argument from 2005 - Present that Brady has been a far big choker in the postseason than Peyton Manning.

I'd accept that if you include the years where he was a game manager for a team with an elite defense and an elite camera (spygate) he may have a point for being about as clutch/not clutch as Manning over the years ...

but from '05 - '13 it's not even a debate.

Brady has been the bigger choker between the two, and is also 0-2 against Manning in the postseason.

The facts are undeniable. And they are facts.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:00 PM   #56
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IMO the best argument in favor of Brady being an over-rated QB is the 11 wins and ~90ish QB rating put up by Casshole in his absence. How many wins would Casshole put up in a Peyton Manning offense? Probably about the same 2 or 3 put up by whatever other slapdicks the colts were forced to play with in 2011.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:01 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0 View Post
I just gave everyone 10 straight seasons of postseason ineptitude but my football takes are horrible?

HE POSTED A 4.2 QBR @ HOME AGAINST MARK SANCHEZ. IN THE PLAYOFFS.

If Peyton Manning or Tony Romo did that, the Internet would have ceased to exist.
You are a dumbass, Hootie.

Not because of this. Just in general.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:01 PM   #58
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Hootie, would you agree that Brady was very much clutch during the SB wins?
Not one bit.

He wasn't ANTI-CLUTCH. He was great against Carolina. He managed the game and the postseason during the tuck rule run. That was Vinatieri all the way. Bledsoe got them to the Super Bowl via a AFCCG win, as well. He was pretty good against Philly, too. But clutch? No. Not clutch. He managed the games well and got them to Vinatieri range to win them. Vinatieri = clutch. Brady = managed great games.

Again, Spygate definitely puts an asterisk on those, but he was better as a game managing team player than someone trying to catch up to Peyton, as clearly evidenced by 10 years of postseason ineptitude.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:02 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl View Post
IMO the best argument in favor of Brady being an over-rated QB is the 11 wins and ~90ish QB rating put up by Casshole in his absence. How many wins would Casshole put up in a Peyton Manning offense? Probably about the same 2 or 3 put up by whatever other slapdicks the colts were forced to play with in 2011.
I also called this when it happened, and called the 2 wins if Peyton ever went out.

I mean, it's pretty god damn damning that Matt Cassel won 11 games with the Patriots and was a force down the stretch with that team ...

and then Peyton went out and the team was SO ABYSMAL they ended up with Andrew ****ing Luck.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:03 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0 View Post
I cherry picked 10 straight years of playoff performances where he lost 6 favored playoff games and 2 other underdog games against Peyton Manning, the biggest postseason choker ever according to this board?
Do you want to check out what Manning's playoff appearances look like after ignoring his three BEST playoff years? I don't think it will be pretty.

But I wouldn't do that, because it's cherry picking anyway.

The SHORT answer to what happened each year, however, is simple:

2005 -- Patriots defense devastated by injuries and free agency losses, stumbles to 10-6. Has to visit a very solid (13-3) Denver team at Denver and just turns the ball over waaay too much to survive.

2006 -- Patriots have far too little offense, including limited skill at WR. Final roster -- Troy Brown, who is DONE, Reche Caldwell, Bam Childress, Jabar Gaffney and Kelvin Kight. TEs? Daniel (good blocker, but stone hands) Graham, and Ben (every measurable in the world, but just not good) Watson. Corey Dillon's last year in the NFL. Frankly, the Patriots (read, Brady and the defense) came inches from somehow dragging this pathetic bunch into a SB, where it would've easily beaten a mediocre Bears team.

2007 -- Recognizing the pathetic state of the offense, Welker and Moss are brought in. 16-0. Two easy playoff wins over pretty solid teams. Then the Giants DLine manhandles the Patriots OLine, and it wins them the game.

2008 -- Brady's knee. Cassel takes a pretty talented team to 11-5, but it's not even good enough to win the AFC East.

2009-14 -- Brady is back. Wins the AFC East EVERY year. Defense is anywhere from mediocre to awful most of these years. In the playoffs, some combination of Welker/Gronk/Talib are hurt all the time, and the Patriots have no run game worth talking about. Moss is gone, and there hasn't been anyone close to a deep threat since.

It sucks, but it takes more than a great QB to win a Super Bowl. How do I know this -- BECAUSE BRADY HAS AS MANY SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONSHIPS AS PEYTON, BREES AND RODGERS COMBINED you tool.
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