Don Banks from SI on Chiefs Coaching/GM

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

• Kansas City -- The general consensus among the league sources I interviewed was that the high level of fan unrest in Kansas City would probably lead Chiefs owner Clark Hunt to make the personally difficult decision to replace general manager Scott Pioli, and not just head coach Romeo Crennel. Hunt and Pioli remain close, so there's a chance Pioli returns, especially if there's a head coach hire that Pioli can sell to Hunt as the potential difference maker. Iowa head coach Kirk Ferentz is a name long linked to Pioli dating from their days together in Cleveland, and he always surfaces as a possible Pioli hire.

If Pioli isn't retained, he won't be out of work for long, because his personnel judgments are still widely respected throughout the league -- at least outside of Kansas City. It was thought the Chiefs might pursue Bill Polian as a GM candidate, but sources say there has not been contact between the two, even though Polian was thought to be willing to listen.

Other potential GM hires by the Chiefs are plentiful, but they include San Francisco's Gamble, Green Bay director of football operations John Dorsey and Indianapolis vice president of football operations Tom Telesco.

Dorsey is known for having a good eye for talent, and his college scouting background gives him a strong draft pedigree. He has worked under both Ted Thompson and Ron Wolf in Green Bay, two of the most respected personnel evaluators in recent NFL history, and sources say he's ready and willing to pursue all GM opportunities after turning down offers to interview last year.

On the coaching side, Arians, who might win the NFL Coach of the Year award for the job he did as the Colts' interim, is a name that has surfaced in Kansas City. His track record for quarterback coaching is respected, and his résumé includes successful stints with the likes of Peyton Manning in Indy, Ben Roethlisberger in Pittsburgh and this year's impressive rookie season by the Colts' Andrew Luck.

On the defensive side of the ball, Cincinnati defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer has again done a superb job with the talent he has on hand, and his work has as much to do with the Bengals returning to the playoffs as any other factor. He has been long considered a quality head coaching candidate, and his son, Adam Zimmer, is currently a defensive assistant on Crennel's staff.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...#ixzz2GIFg6Ne3

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Orton was healthy and sitting while Palko stunk it up.





I don't see the connection here...

For half a game against the Bears. Unless you're suggesting it was a terrible decision to not start Orton on Sunday against Pittsburgh when he didn't report to the Chiefs until mid-day that Friday.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I own up to that. I exaggerated, but at least I'm willing to admit it. But the argument is moving the uprights. The reason people rejected drafting Okung wasn't because they loved Albert's future. It's because they didn't want to spend a high pick on a lineman, let alone one they weren't in love with.

That's also untrue.

I was one of the most vocal and it was absolutely BOTH - we didn't want a tackle AND we loved Albert's future.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by FAX

My theory on this has been articulated before. I liked Haley. I liked his attitude and I liked his commitment to winning. It's a damn shame that he was paired with a certified asswipe like Dr. Evil whom I firmly believe actively undermined his efforts to turn this team into a successful franchise.

I never fully understood why people made so much of his "antics" on the sideline. NFL HCs are always going off for one reason or another and are rarely called out for it. Yet, when Haley showed some emotion (which I prefer to Roleo's or Herm's narcoleptic zombie demeanor) people went nuts ... never got that.

He was also a guy who studied the game. It interesting that the "new NFL math" is gaining traction when it comes to fourth down attempts, fakes, etc. Haley was trashed for his creativity and understanding of the percentages. If given another opportunity, I think he will eventually be a very successful head coach in this league. Meanwhile, we'll probably still be trying to figure out how to rebuild one more time.

FAX

Well done.

Originally Posted by FAX

One man's inconsistency is another man's surprise attack, Mr. DeezNutz.

Nevertheless, you may be right. Those decisions are situational, though. In order to agree with you, my brain would have to absorb the game circumstances associated with each call.

There's another variable, as well ... who was actually making the call? For example, was it Weis or Methuselah or Haley himself who make the call to run Thomas Jones around right end on 4th and 2 (or whatever it was)? So far as we know, it was Weis. Of course, Weis (a proven megalomaniac in his own right) would probably deny that.

Oh ... and as for "the team quit on him", Mr. PGM ... think about it ... when your GM is proactively busting your balls behind your back on a daily basis, it's a little difficult to lead. I challenge any HC in the entire league to retain his respected leadership status under those circumstances. It's impossible. Cannot be done. No way. No how.

FAX

I am in agreement with every word.

Originally Posted by PGM

Mr. FAX, it's the NFL win or GTFO

Thats the thing. Pioli wanted Haley out after 2010.

Let me say that again...PIOLI WANTED HALEY OUT AFTER 2010.

You know why? Because Haley told Scott that Cassel was garbage and that he couldnt win with him and wanted the team to sign Matt Hasselback.

In 2009, Clark Hunt wanted us to draft a franchise quarterback and Pioli stuck his neck out by standing on a soapbox for an alternate route and traded for Cassel and gave him that reeruned contract and was dead set on proving that was the right choice. Scott made that trade BEFORE Haley was even hired....then Scott went against Haleys wishes and drafted Tyson Jackson at 3.

Like FAX said, I think Haley flourishes when he gets a system around him thaat supports what he wants to do...that the way it should always be.

Originally Posted by htismaqe

He put Orton in and immediately ran one of the longest-developing plays in the game of football, against one of the best pass-rushing defenses in all of football.

He's either a ****ing moron or he was TRYING to hurt Orton in order to have an excuse to go back to Palko.

Haley was setting up a flea flicker all game. We were running a 60-40 split favoring the run and he was desperate to put points on the board and make a calculated risk.

[ModSocks]

"According to Sports Illustrated, Oregon's Chip Kelly will be looking for "near complete control when it comes to personnel decision-making power" if he's to make the jump to the NFL.
SI's Don Banks believes that could make Kelly a no-go for the Eagles, who are expected to make a big push for the Ducks' innovative offensive mind. According to Banks, Kelly could also be a possibility for the Panthers. With only an interim GM in place in Carolina, Kelly could likely get the "complete control" he's seeking if coach Ron Rivera is dismissed. Kelly's addition would be an exciting one for Cam Newton."

This is in the same article in the link above, btw.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by FAX

That's pretty much how I see it.

We all have strong points and short-comings. All of us. Even Planeteers. Haley had flaws and I have never argued that he was the epitome of human evolution. Still, he represents what the Chiefs needed and still need; a young coach who can put his imprimatur on and grow with the franchise, a coach who focuses on the fundamentals of conditioning and basic football (see turnover records), and a guy who approaches the game with a certain creativity (The Chiefs were once known for innovation and I'd like to see that particular slice of history repeat itself.)

The fact of the matter is that, for whatever reason, Pioli decided to hang Haley out to dry. He developed an absolute hatred for the guy. Why? I can only speculate that Haley thought he was going to be an actual NFL head coach, not a puppet and, when he learned that he was going to have to dance for Dr. Evil, he simply couldn't do it ... it wasn't in his nature.

Meanwhile, Pioli was and is a freaking cancer. His organizational decision-making and personnel decisions aren't just suspect, they're obviously pitiful. He is a man clearly out of his mind and Clark's worst decision to date. Yet people who could not function, let alone thrive, while working directly under Pioli will blame Haley for every possible sin they can conjure up. It's irrational, in my view.

I think the evidence speaks for itself. They say you are what your record says you are. And, when it comes to the Chiefs, nuff said.

FAX

I agree with both of you here. I would simply add Clark Hunt's worst decision was not Pioli's hiring, but instead Pioli's (non)firing when the time came to make a choice for the franchise. Hunt fired the wrong guy and now he has to start the whole thing over in finding a competent staff for this team -- this is Hunt's worst decision to date.

[BossChief]

Chip Kelly and Cam Newton would be a powerful pairing, IMO.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls

I agree with both of you here. I would simply add Clark Hunt's worst decision was not Pioli's hiring, but instead Pioli's firing when the time came to make a choice for the franchise. Hunt fired the wrong guy and now he has to start the whole thing over -- this is Hunt's worst decision.

Last year would have been too soon...December 31st is the right time. Ill give him until the 3rd to make that move.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Chip Kelly and Geno Smith would be a powerful pairing, IMO.

FYP

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Last year would have been too soon...December 31st is the right time. Ill give him until the 3rd to make that move.

To be honest, the right time to fire Pioli was after the playoff debacle in which Pioli's QB showed the world how stubborn Pioli is with the QB position. It was evident during that game the 63 million dollar man was not worthy.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls

To be honest, the right time to fire Pioli was after the playoff debacle in which Pioli's QB showed the world how stubborn Pioli is with the QB position.

That's silly.

You think that the right time to fire Pioli was after he inherited a 2-14 team and made the playoffs in his second year here?

2011s final record was understandable given the rash of major injuries to major players...after 2012 will be the right time.

He has had 2 HC hires, has chosen not to do anything about the QB position and has had 4 drafts.

The right time is new years eve 2012.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

That's also untrue.

I was one of the most vocal and it was absolutely BOTH - we didn't want a tackle AND we loved Albert's future.

Maybe you were. The conversations I've seen were a lot more about "we don't need to sink another pick on another freaking lineman" because Berry was the consensus choice here. This thread tells an interesting story (it's about Gaither, not Okung).
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...+albert&page=2

So a few things. One, you acknowledge that you liked Albert's future, not the way he was playing at the time. Two, the thread shows that CP was less than fully confident that Albert could be a franchise left tackle and viewed him as replaceable. The conversation started with "did Albert improve?" I don't know how anyone can look at Albert's progression and not admit that he is a much better left tackle than he was in 2009, or even his rookie season. He turned into a top notch run blocker overnight and his pass protection has evolved from constantly making mistakes to now being a pretty consistently solid pass protector.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Orton was healthy and sitting while Palko stunk it up.

People keep saying this, but it's not completely true.

Orton didn't make it to KC until 3 days before the Steelers game.

The only mistake Haley made was not starting him in Chicago. He dislocated his finger in Chicago.

He couldn't play vs the Jets. Finger.

He played the next game vs GB.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by BossChief

That's silly.

You think that the right time to fire Pioli was after he inherited a 2-14 team and made the playoffs in his second year here?

2011s final record was understandable given the rash of major injuries to major players...after 2012 will be the right time.

He has had 2 HC hires, has chosen not to do anything about the QB position and has had 4 drafts.

The right time is new years eve 2012.

If my manager went out and spent 63 million on a QB that is not even a back up, I'd ****ing hit the ceiling.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Dave

People keep saying this, but it's not completely true.

Orton didn't make it to KC until 3 days before the Steelers game.

The only mistake Haley made was not starting him in Chicago. He dislocated his finger in Chicago.

He couldn't play vs the Jets. Finger.

He played the next game vs GB.

As for why Palko was on the roster? That was a lot more Pioli than Haley, and fits the overall theme that Pioli didn't want anyone on the roster that could possibly create a QB controversy. It's not like Pioli brought anyone into training camp to compete with Tyler Palko, unless you count Croyle/Guttierez, two guys who were so bad they aren't in the league anymore.

Case closed.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Haley was setting up a flea flicker all game. We were running a 60-40 split favoring the run and he was desperate to put points on the board and make a calculated risk.

And therein is the problem. Good coaches don't get desperate, they get determined.

Forget all of the draws on 3rd downs and shit, that flea flicker against Chicago was the dumbest thing Haley did during a game as HC of the Chiefs.