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Old 11-09-2018, 08:29 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The decision on Steven Nelson is getting harder.

I have been very comfortable with the idea of pretty much dumping out our entire CB personnel this coming offseason and reloading through free agency splashes (Ronald Darby, anyone?) and multiple draft picks.

But listening to Locked On Chiefs this morning, Steven Nelson and Orlando Scandrick are in the entire league's top ten for "passer rating against."

Now, the decision on Scandrick isn't that hard. You float a one year contract to him, he's old, if he takes it that's fine, if not he's old you let him walk etc.

Nelson, however, is peaking right now. I don't know if he's who I want as a Bob Sutton starter on the outside, which seems to require more length and elite talent, but he's a slam dunk elite #3. But he probably knows he's a starter in the NFL for at least 10 teams in this league, so he could be demanding starter money.

And if you let him walk, you better be prepared to spend more for a starting outside corner, and Nelson is the most "known" a quantity as you're going to get.

What do we do about Steven Nelson this coming offseason?
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:38 AM   #2
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Let him walk and sign Scandrick to a 1 year deal extension. Draft a corner early and continue to develop Tremon Smith.

We’ve made average corners look good in this system and it won’t change.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:05 AM   #3
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I don’t know that you pay a lot, but I’d be very interested in keeping him.

I think the thing now is you need versatile corners that have similar skill level and can do everything ok.

That’s nelson
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:08 AM   #4
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He's played himself into consideration but he's also played himself into a potential 4/$40 million payday. Shit, maybe more.

I don't think you can justify that. What is it that he actually does? He's not big, he's not fast. He's physical but those are the kinds of guys you can coach up. The problem is that we don't have anybody behind him prepared for that kind of role but such is the way of things.

And if i you re-sign him, you lose Fuller after next season. Long-term, I'd much rather have Fuller.
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Old 11-09-2018, 12:17 PM   #5
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
He's played himself into consideration but he's also played himself into a potential 4/$40 million payday. Shit, maybe more.

I don't think you can justify that. What is it that he actually does? He's not big, he's not fast. He's physical but those are the kinds of guys you can coach up. The problem is that we don't have anybody behind him prepared for that kind of role but such is the way of things.

And if i you re-sign him, you lose Fuller after next season. Long-term, I'd much rather have Fuller.
Using that logic leaves you only with one real solution: draft a corner.

You probably can't pay Nelson unless his play regresses to a #3 corner mean. Paying him legit starter money costs you Fuller.

So, you have to draft your starter. With a 1st round pick that will likely be somewhere between 29 and 32.
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Old 11-09-2018, 12:27 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Using that logic leaves you only with one real solution: draft a corner.

You probably can't pay Nelson unless his play regresses to a #3 corner mean. Paying him legit starter money costs you Fuller.

So, you have to draft your starter. With a 1st round pick that will likely be somewhere between 29 and 32.
Yup. And it's gotta be one that can provide average play immediately.

I don't see a real alternative here. You can give Fuller the same contract you'd have to give Nelson and get it signed, IMO. Because Fuller's a year away from FA and playing on a pittance salary next year. Give him that FA deal you could give to Nelson and suddenly he gets a big boy paycheck and he's happy. That's a better use of the resources.

And you have to use heavy draft capital to get the other guy because you can't wait 2-3 (4) years for him to find his form like we have with Nelson. We need credible play immediately there. And you're not gonna get too many vets dying to play here cheap because this offense makes things hard on CBs. You'll never truly stand out.

I won't argue with using a 1 and a 2 on corners. It's aggressive as hell but it increases the odds of one of them working out and if they both do - man you're in great shape. And there's always the fallback of making one of them a safety (which you also need).

I don't think Veach has a lot of wiggle here, to be honest. He needs to put a LOT of draft capital into the CB market.
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Old 11-09-2018, 01:04 PM   #7
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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I know I've said it a million times, but to me it still comes down to production per unit salary cap. Except QB.


I don't think you can overpay for Nelson. I think you can try to push a little extra on a guy here or there, but Nelson is a tough one for me in terms of buying blue sky.

I have no idea what the number is, but I think you offer him a contract for what you think he can produce. I'm not in favor of overpaying.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:29 PM   #8
O.city O.city is offline
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Thing with paying him is, I think you could get a tier 2 or 3 free agent next year and coach him up and not drop off much, paired with drafting a giy
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:45 PM   #9
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Thing with paying him is, I think you could get a tier 2 or 3 free agent next year and coach him up and not drop off much, paired with drafting a giy
That's my thought and why I ask what he actually does well? What truly sets him apart from a middle-tier guy.

The only reason you'd pay him is because even a middle-tier guy takes something like $4+ million. Even those guys aren't cheap.

That's why they really really need Ward or Smith to become at least a #3 cornerback. After a year getting used to the speed of the league and in the system, surely 1 of those 2 can be a credible option by the end of next season.

I'm not expecting them to be sound in week 1 - that's not a reasonable expectation. But as the season progresses, they should be better and better and if they're credible by week 15ish, that should be okay.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:46 PM   #10
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Where is this notion coming from that Nelson is good? What are we basing it on?
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:56 PM   #11
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Where is this notion coming from that Nelson is good? What are we basing it on?
Guy's been phenomenal this year. Even if you don't trust PFF (I don't), the eye test says he's played very well and at last check he was top 10 in the league on QB rating against (PFF has him top 10 as well at this point, IIRC; something like 8th).

It's fair to ask if this is the new normal or if he's just having a good season in a sea of mediocrity, but there's no argument that he's been one of the better corners in football this year from a pure performance standpoint.

Gotta give credit where it's due - he's been a good player this year.
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Old 11-10-2018, 08:16 AM   #12
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If this is his new standard, I’d try and keep him

But contract years have fooled many a people
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:24 AM   #13
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Let him walk and sign Scandrick to a 1 year deal extension. Draft a corner early and continue to develop Tremon Smith.

We’ve made average corners look good in this system and it won’t change.
+1. Nelson isn't worth the contract he's going to be looking for. Just keep developing cheap draft picks and bargain bin FA's.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:30 AM   #14
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Scandrick has been fine but he’s old.
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Old 11-10-2018, 11:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Guy's been phenomenal this year. Even if you don't trust PFF (I don't), the eye test says he's played very well and at last check he was top 10 in the league on QB rating against (PFF has him top 10 as well at this point, IIRC; something like 8th).



It's fair to ask if this is the new normal or if he's just having a good season in a sea of mediocrity, but there's no argument that he's been one of the better corners in football this year from a pure performance standpoint.



Gotta give credit where it's due - he's been a good player this year.


The eye test to me shows a dude that never looks back or locates the ball. He is constantly running through receivers. He is a PI waiting to happen. I have seen multiple hall of fame type qbs pick on him this year.

Not to say he is terrible, but I wouldn’t pay him if he wants a substantial sum.
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