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Old 07-11-2018, 11:58 AM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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ven the Lefties are starting to see Elon Musk as an empty suit

https://gizmodo.com/is-elon-musk-ser...ium=socialflow


Long read but pretty well lines it out.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
What does "his own" mean? You mean in a government that blatantly rigs the market for oil monopolies and sabotages any effort to introduce alternatives? Any subsidies he's received is more than countered by government favors for products that run on oil and gas.

Ironic that he's escaping the US market and flocking to China where he can enjoy a freer market. China is about to annihilate us in the ebus market, and we're still finding reasons to block innovation.
State capitalism with central planning isn't a free market either. It's no wonder he needs the ChiComms.
I pointed out before how you lean toward central planning from govt. You even endorsed Smart Cities which is right out of the UN—for the ultimate in citizen control.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:38 PM   #17
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
SpaceX competes successfully for commercial launches as well as govt contracts.
Then he shouldn't need the govt contracts. But he does use them and gets rich off taxpayers. Ultimate crony capitalist.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:47 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
State capitalism with central planning isn't a free market either. It's no wonder he needs the ChiComms.
I pointed out before how you lean toward central planning from govt. You even endorsed Smart Cities which is right out of the UN—for the ultimate in citizen control.
And what do you call the way we've treated oil for umpteen years and even today except crony capitalism?

Of course I support smart cities. Anyone who doesn't given our advances in technology is swimming against the tide.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
He claims he's a socialist.


While simultaneously demonstrating in his statement that he's quite literally using his own unique definition of socialism.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
While simultaneously demonstrating in his statement that he's quite literally using his own unique definition of socialism.
Technically he's describing corporatism which is welfare for corporations.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:27 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
And what do you call the way we've treated oil for umpteen years and even today except crony capitalism?
Where have I not criticized crony capitalism in America?
I just criticized Elon Musk 's crony capitalism. Quit strawmanning. Or is it whataboutism?

It's a familiar pattern with plenty of these billionaires. Make it on their own at first then suck off the govt. GE started out capitalist and later morphed into another uber crony capitalist outfit. Big donations from GE were given to Obama. In 2012 Obama's Jobs Council was headed by GE's CEO Jeffrey Immelt. This is the company that built that defective nuclear power plant in Japan that's been spilling nuclear waste into the Pacific Ocean.

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Of course I support smart cities. Anyone who doesn't given our advances in technology is swimming against the tide.
Apparently, you didn't know it's a UN is push. Ya' know that organization full of tin-pot dictators and communists. It's global crony capitalism with the UN, a cronyism which is growing all the time.

https://sustainabledevelopment.un.or...rship/?p=10009

You are no supporter of free markets. You're statist through and through.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Where have I not criticized crony capitalism in America?
I just criticized Elon Musk 's crony capitalism. Quit strawmanning. Or is it whataboutism?

It's a familiar pattern with plenty of these billionaires. Make it on their own at first then suck off the govt. GE started out capitalist and later morphed into another uber crony capitalist outfit. Big donations from GE were given to Obama. In 2012 Obama's Jobs Council was headed by GE's CEO Jeffrey Immelt. This is the company that built that defective nuclear power plant in Japan that's been spilling nuclear waste into the Pacific Ocean.



Apparently, you didn't know it's a UN is push. Ya' know that organization full of tin-pot dictators and communists. It's global crony capitalism with the UN, a cronyism which is growing all the time.

https://sustainabledevelopment.un.or...rship/?p=10009

You are no supporter of free markets. You're statist through and through.
Whataboutism. What a clever buzzword.

So whatabout the fact that if not for a lobbyist stronghold on oil monopolizing the market, a free market could have allowed an electric concept like Tesla succeed or fail on its own merit. A small subsidy to one electric car maker barely counterbalances the preferential treatment given to their competitor alternative - transportation that runs on oil. If you're this worked up about a UN-backed drive for alternative energy, surely you were this worked up on oil boxing out the entire global market for decades. Right?

A subsidy to counter another "subsidy" is not a competitive advantage. It is creating competitive balance.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:02 PM   #23
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Well this whole thing is bullshit because the Lead Rescue guy has emails going back in forth with Elon asking him to continue work on it.

This PRIVATE CITIZEN directs his engineers to work 24/hrs a day building something that could have helped. Just because it wasn't used doesn't make his effort any less noble.
Yes. I don't get the haters.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Where have I not criticized crony capitalism in America?
I just criticized Elon Musk 's crony capitalism. Quit strawmanning. Or is it whataboutism?

It's a familiar pattern with plenty of these billionaires. Make it on their own at first then suck off the govt. GE started out capitalist and later morphed into another uber crony capitalist outfit. Big donations from GE were given to Obama. In 2012 Obama's Jobs Council was headed by GE's CEO Jeffrey Immelt. This is the company that built that defective nuclear power plant in Japan that's been spilling nuclear waste into the Pacific Ocean.



Apparently, you didn't know it's a UN is push. Ya' know that organization full of tin-pot dictators and communists. It's global crony capitalism with the UN, a cronyism which is growing all the time.

https://sustainabledevelopment.un.or...rship/?p=10009

You are no supporter of free markets. You're statist through and through.
Fukushima I plant was not defective. It in fact withstood much more punishment than it was designed to. It was fully functional after the Earthquake. It wasn't until the tsunami waves crested the seawall and flooded where the backup generators were that a partial meltdown in one of six reactors happened. A meltdown that was fully contained in the reactor chamber. The plant was 40 years old at that point and didn't contain many of the passive cooling measures that modern nuclear reactors have.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:52 PM   #25
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Fukushima I plant was not defective. It in fact withstood much more punishment than it was designed to. It was fully functional after the Earthquake. It wasn't until the tsunami waves crested the seawall and flooded where the backup generators were that a partial meltdown in one of six reactors happened. A meltdown that was fully contained in the reactor chamber. The plant was 40 years old at that point and didn't contain many of the passive cooling measures that modern nuclear reactors have.
There were warnings about its safety before that earthquake and tsunami. It had problems. It was old and iirc was to be phased out eventually.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/w...22nuclear.html

It was also built too low making it vulnerable to a tsunami. I read that years ago. This was a totally preventable accident.


...a 35-meter-high bluff overlooking the Pacific was shaved down to build the plant closer to sea level more than 40 years ago.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.W0alMGRKjNs
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:56 PM   #26
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And....Gloucester Chief, I had to search for this again.

GE faces federal lawsuit over Fukushima nuclear disaster

"GE designed and largely constructed the entire failed Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant at the center of the dispute," the lawsuit claims, "and for many years, directly or indirectly through its affiliates, was responsible for the maintenance of the (plant). ...

The lawsuit states the seeds of the Fukushima disaster were planted in the 1960s when GE made a "risky bet to dominate the commercial nuclear power industry. In so doing, GE misrepresented the safety of its nuclear reactor, the lawsuit claims "so it could generate sales and earn profits surrounding the possibilities of nuclear power."

The plaintiffs in the case say they are representing 150,000 Japanese citizens and hundreds of businesses.

https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/n...a-nuclear.html
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:00 PM   #27
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What we're moving toward...state-led and run capitalism- The Zilla mode

Why had the president chosen General Electric’s Immelt in particular as the head of this [Obama's] campaign arm?

For one reason, Immelt was sympathetic to the president’s brand of state-led capitalism. He had gone so far as to say of China in a television interview: “The one thing that actually works, state run communism, may not be your cup of tea, but their government works.”

https://mises.org/library/general-el...ony-capitalism
Nice, huh? Chiefzilla agrees.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:10 PM   #28
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Last one on uber crony capitalist GE and its Obama admin perks:

Even more importantly, the government rescued the company from what seemed likely to be bankruptcy in 2008–2009.

It also let the company off with an exceptionally mild slap-on-the-wrist fine of $50 million for cooking its books in the late 1990s and 2000s, when there might instead have been a large fine and criminal fraud charges.

As a further indication of its exceptionally close ties, the Obama administration inserted language into the late 2012 fiscal cliff bill that enabled the company to avoid paying much federal income taxes.
But Trump didn't show his income taxes to voters.

Same link as above.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Why had the president chosen General Electric’s Immelt in particular as the head of this [Obama's] campaign arm?

For one reason, Immelt was sympathetic to the president’s brand of state-led capitalism. He had gone so far as to say of China in a television interview: “The one thing that actually works, state run communism, may not be your cup of tea, but their government works.”

https://mises.org/library/general-el...ony-capitalism
Nice, huh? Chiefzilla agrees.
Immelt did a terrible job. That said, what's your complaint here based on the quoted text? Being emperor is a far more efficient way to implement policy. If Trump had complete control, we'd likely have a very different border wall situation. Autocrats can definitely implement their policy. Is it good? He didn't comment on that in the quote.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:00 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Why had the president chosen General Electric’s Immelt in particular as the head of this [Obama's] campaign arm?

For one reason, Immelt was sympathetic to the president’s brand of state-led capitalism. He had gone so far as to say of China in a television interview: “The one thing that actually works, state run communism, may not be your cup of tea, but their government works.”

https://mises.org/library/general-el...ony-capitalism
Nice, huh? Chiefzilla agrees.
I don't care if the state centralizes planning of infrastructure. But if we're calling a spade a spade, again you can't talk about GE and ignore that the state for decades has steered us to become oil-dependent including the gajillions we spend on road infrastructure. If you truly wanted a free market, then let a competitor like Elon Musk enter a market where there isn't market collusion, extremely favorable tax incentives, and monopolization of the energy market. Until then, any government favoritism is only a counter-balance to the government favoritism provided to oil/gas.
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