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Old 09-20-2008, 11:34 PM  
banyon banyon is offline
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Strict Constructionists: Was this judge out of line?

Sagging Pants Ban Overturned

http://www.kfbk.com/cc-common/news/s...rticle=4255711



A judge in Riviera Beach, Florida has ruled a law banning sagging pants is unconstitutional.
Wednesday, September 17, 2008

A 17 year old boy spent the night in jail last week after an officer said he spotted the teenager riding his bicycle with 4 to 5 inches of boxer shorts exposed.

Circuit Judge Paul Moyle ruled that the law was unconstitutional based on limited facts. However, the charge hasn't been dropped yet and a new arraignment is set for Oct. 5.

The law was voted on back in March. A first offense for sagging pants carries a $150 fine or community service, and habitual offenders face the possibility of jail time.

The boy's public defender, Carol Bickerstaff, said she wants the city to drop the law regardless of whether anyone dislikes low-riding pants. She also told the judge, "Your honor, we now have the fashion police
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
I can't think of any off hand. But I agree with a lot of what Ron Paul says on the topic of the constitution and getting back to it (to a degree).
Well we have diverged then my friend. I like some of Pauls ideas, particularly wrt Iraq and monetary reform, but his Constitutional ideas are incompatible with the idea of being a modern superpower in the world.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:49 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by banyon View Post
Well we have diverged then my friend. I like some of Pauls ideas, particularly wrt Iraq and monetary reform, but his Constitutional ideas are incompatible with the idea of being a modern superpower in the world.
Well, I guess if you consider shrinking government going back to the constitution, we have diverged.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Ron Paul basically wants to strip the Constitution of all implied powers.
Like I said, to a degree.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
Like I said, to a degree.
Eh. I think Paul talks a pretty good game on the Constitution, but the way he interprets it is so libertarian it's hard to call it "strict."

I don't know why "strict" is supposed to mean "no implied powers."
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
Well, I guess if you consider shrinking government going back to the constitution, we have diverged.
I'm for cutting wasteful spending, as I have always been. But that's a far cry from saying "government shouldn't be able to do this or that for the general welfare".
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by banyon View Post
I'm for cutting wasteful spending, as I have always been. But that's a far cry from saying "government shouldn't be able to do this or that".
I think everybody's for cutting wasteful spending.

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I think everybody's for cutting wasteful spending.

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.
You know that Ted Stevens is still a Senator, right?
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:59 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by banyon View Post
I'm for cutting wasteful spending, as I have always been. But that's a far cry from saying "government shouldn't be able to do this or that for the general welfare".
Well, let me give an example.

For example, the FDA back in the 70s/80s repealed a law set forth by Congress years earlier. Constitutionally, I don't believe they're able to do that. Those are the kinds of things I'd like to get back to.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
You know that Ted Stevens is still a Senator, right?
I don't mean "everybody" everybody. I mean everybody with a brain.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:00 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjayhawk View Post
Well, let me give an example.

For example, the FDA back in the 70s/80s repealed a law set forth by Congress years earlier. Constitutionally, I don't believe they're able to do that. Those are the kinds of things I'd like to get back to.
That doesn't make any sense to me. Regulations never trump statutes.

Do you have any more info on that?
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:02 AM   #26
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If appealed, this ruling will be over-turned.

School dress codes, as long as the school acts reasonable....and the clothi8ng can reasonably be deemed to be (in any sense) disruptive, the courts have deferred to schools.

If Florida takes this into the federal courts, I think...this judge will be over-turned.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:04 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I don't mean "everybody" everybody. I mean everybody with a brain.
I guess I mean I'm seriously dedicated to it.

i used to roll around in high school carrying around this book for a while.

They need to make a 2008 edition:



There's all kinds of s*** that should not be happening in a free republican democracy.

It's one of the few sentiments that I never lost from when I was a far-right ideologue.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:05 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
If appealed, this ruling will be over-turned.

School dress codes, as long as the school acts reasonable....and the clothi8ng can reasonably be deemed to be (in any sense) disruptive, the courts have deferred to schools.

If Florida takes this into the federal courts, I think...this judge will be over-turned.
This is not a school dress code IIRC, it is a city ordinance.

You don't usually ride your bicycle by cops while you are in school.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:07 AM   #29
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Some of you guys need to read up on the case law....regarding school dress codes.

You appear to be allowing your liberal biases to color your views; case law is pretty clear on this....for high school students anyway.

While "first amendment" rights are not surrendered at the school house door as they say....reasonable actions to prevent disruptive or gang related dress have been upheld, repeatedly.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:07 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyon View Post
That doesn't make any sense to me. Regulations never trump statutes.

Do you have any more info on that?
I came across it in the book I'm reading "In Defense of Food" by Michael Pollan.

It says:

Quote:
The 1938 Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act imposed strict rules requiring that the word “imitation” appear on any food product that was, well, an imitation ... [And] the food industry [argued over the word], strenuously for decades, and in 1973 it finally succeeded in getting the imitation rule tossed out, a little-notice but momentous step that helped speed America down the path of nutritionism.

… The American Heart Association, eager to get Americans off saturated fats and onto vegetable oils (including hydrogenated vegetable oils), was actively encouraging the food industry to “modify” various foods to get the saturated fats and cholesterol out of them, and in the early seventies the association urged that “any existing and regulatory barriers to the marketing of such foods be removed.”

And so they were when, in 1973, the FDA (not, note, the Congress that wrote the law) simply repealed the 1938 rule concerning imitation foods. It buried the change in a set of new, seemingly consumer-friendly rules about nutrient labeling so that news of the imitation rule’s appeal did not appear until the twenty-seventh paragraph of The New York Times’ account, published under the headline F.D.A. PROPOSES SWEEPING CHANGE IN FOOD LABELING: NEW RULES DESIGNED TO GIVE CONSUMERS A BETTER IDEA OF NUTRITIONAL VALUE. ... The revised imitation rule held that as long as an imitation product was not “nutritionally inferior” to the natural food it sought to impersonate—as long as it had the same quantities of recongized nutrients—the imitation could be marketed without using the dreaded “i” word.

Unfortunately, nothing is footnoted in the book. Just the sources listed in the back, which is where I assume he'd have gotten it from.
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