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Old 09-20-2008, 11:34 PM  
banyon banyon is offline
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Strict Constructionists: Was this judge out of line?

Sagging Pants Ban Overturned

http://www.kfbk.com/cc-common/news/s...rticle=4255711



A judge in Riviera Beach, Florida has ruled a law banning sagging pants is unconstitutional.
Wednesday, September 17, 2008

A 17 year old boy spent the night in jail last week after an officer said he spotted the teenager riding his bicycle with 4 to 5 inches of boxer shorts exposed.

Circuit Judge Paul Moyle ruled that the law was unconstitutional based on limited facts. However, the charge hasn't been dropped yet and a new arraignment is set for Oct. 5.

The law was voted on back in March. A first offense for sagging pants carries a $150 fine or community service, and habitual offenders face the possibility of jail time.

The boy's public defender, Carol Bickerstaff, said she wants the city to drop the law regardless of whether anyone dislikes low-riding pants. She also told the judge, "Your honor, we now have the fashion police
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:48 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
I have a pathetically low view of the justice department and judicial branch. Perhaps that is because of the current administration, but I just see them as voter-proofed ideologues.
My "pathetically low view" currently resides with Congress. Heh.

Ironic, if unsurprisingly....I consider most partisan Dems to be ideologues.

Par for the course, I suppose.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:49 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
My "pathetically low view" currently resides with Congress. Heh.

Ironic, if unsurprisingly....I consider most partisan Dems to be ideologues.

Par for the course, I suppose.
Um... most partisan anybodies are ideologues.

That's almost always why they're partisan.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:49 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm wondering if the source of the problem hasn't been gentlemen like yourself who "peruse" the facts of a case and then make unfair and inaccurate assumptions about those involved.

Well, if your administration....spends Saturday nights after some cocktails discussing their "problems," at a minimum I'd encourage them to revisit them on Monday or Tuesday of the next week.

Heh.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:51 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Um... most partisan anybodies are ideologues.

That's almost always why they're partisan.
True, if overly broad. But true, for the most part.

Some pathetic partisans are all about the "team" though; kinda like HS athletics. How sad, eh?

There are quite a few from both sides around this joint. Heh.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:53 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
True, if overly broad.
"Overly broad"? I just said the exact same shit you just said.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:55 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
"Overly broad"? I just said the exact same shit you just said.
"Exactly, Mr. Gibson? Word for word? Really? Are you really sure?"

Well....not really; just kinda. Heh.
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Old 09-21-2008, 01:00 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
True, if overly broad. But true, for the most part.

Some pathetic partisans are all about the "team" though; kinda like HS athletics. How sad, eh?

There are quite a few from both sides around this joint. Heh.
Given the extent of participation in my thread from yesterday by one side of the aisle....
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Old 09-21-2008, 01:13 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Given the extent of participation in my thread from yesterday by one side of the aisle....
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexactly.

After that thread, the liberals around this place should be applauded for their ability to wipe off the God-sheen from the candidate they support and think critically. The conservatives do not deserve the same praise.
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:08 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Ron Paul basically wants to strip the Constitution of all implied powers.
Link?

BTW, what is wrong with being an ideologue?

I think it just matters what the ideology is as to whether or not it's bad.

I've seen partisan moderates too. And partisan Indies. Its just issue by issue with them. It depends on how strongly you believe in what you're advocating or defending.
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:10 AM   #55
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No I don't see this as unConstitutional. I see this as falling under community standards apply which the SC has held up. So it should be kept at the local level. I can't see making a Federal issue out it. Pun intended!

But I also think it's a dumb law. So if the people there are offended they'll have to take the initiative and repeal it.
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:21 AM   #56
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There's no law against stupid laws.
But there is a bit of a Vagueness Doctrine.
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:36 AM   #57
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No offense, but I don't think you guys qualify as strict constructionists.
First off this link has completely no details to the case so with my very limited knowledge of this case I will remark.


I fail to see your arguement. A strict constructionalist would uphold any local or state law as long as it did not violate the constitution, that is the arguement here not the sagging. Your point is? You don't have to be a strict construtionalist to do this. If you are trying to attack this particular form of constitutional interpretation you are doing a bad job.

Now for a judge to say its unconstitutional, the only arguement I find is that this "offense" is in violation of a state or community law. (The article was VERY vague with details). All the judge was doing was upholding current community or state laws. If people don't like the law they should petition against it and get a ballot started.

If this was a federal judge he is just upholding the 10th amendment.

IMO, if a kid wants to sag that is his personal choice. I have no problem with it as long as there is no public nudity taking place.
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Old 09-21-2008, 08:04 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No I don't see this as unConstitutional. I see this as falling under community standards apply which the SC has held up. So it should be kept at the local level. I can't see making a Federal issue out it. Pun intended!

But I also think it's a dumb law. So if the people there are offended they'll have to take the initiative and repeal it.
Where are community standards in the Constitution?
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Old 09-21-2008, 08:05 AM   #59
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But there is a bit of a Vagueness Doctrine.
Are you saying this law is vague?

(I'm really not sure if you're just pointing this out or trying to do 2 things at once with your post)
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Old 09-21-2008, 08:15 AM   #60
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Are you saying this law is vague?

(I'm really not sure if you're just pointing this out or trying to do 2 things at once with your post)
First off, there's gonna be a lot of supposition, as this article has very little substance to go on.

But your posit was that there is no law against stupid laws.
I was pointing out that there is a line of Constitutional Review, derived from Due Process rights, that holds that laws cannot be so vague as to create undue confusion in the actor or the enforcer whether the action is a violation.
In that sense, there is a 'law' against laws that are so 'stupidly' crafted that they are unenforceable, or susceptible to selective enforcement.

And I'd guess that's what the judge herein is hanging his hat on. That this is an offshoot of prior vagrancy laws that law enforcement would use as a tool to selectively harass or weed out 'undesireables' without equal and fair application across the board.
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