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Old 10-12-2018, 04:07 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is online now
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Opinion: Trump could be most honest president in modern history

https://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news...uCL5YKPTMKUaN/

WASHINGTON — Donald Trump may be remembered as the most honest president in modern American history.
Don’t get me wrong, Trump lies all the time. He said that he “enacted the biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history” (actually they are the eighth largest) and that “our economy is the strongest it’s ever been in the history of our country” (which may one day be true, but not yet). In part, it’s a New York thing — everything is the biggest and the best.

But when it comes to the real barometer of presidential truthfulness — keeping his promises — Trump is a paragon of honesty. For better or worse, since taking office Trump has done exactly what he promised he would do.

Trump kept his promise to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, something his three immediate predecessors also promised yet failed to do. He promised to “crush and destroy ISIS,” and two years later he is on the verge of eliminating the Islamic State’s physical caliphate. He promised to impose a travel ban on countries that he saw as posing a terrorist threat, and after several false starts the final version of his ban was upheld by the Supreme Court.

Trump pledged to nominate Supreme Court justices “in the mold of Justice [Antonin] Scalia,” and now Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh sit on the high court. Trump also pledged to fill the federal appellate courts with young, conservative judges, and so far the Senate has confirmed 29 — more than any recent president at this point in his administration.

Trump promised to cancel President Barack Obama’s Clean Power Plan, withdraw from the Paris climate accord, approve the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipelines, and open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to exploration. He fulfilled all of those pledges.

On trade, he kept his promise to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership and impose tariffs on steel and aluminum. He also committed to renegotiating NAFTA and the U.S.-Korea Free Trade Agreement — and recently signed new deals with Mexico, Canada and South Korea. He committed to imposing tariffs on China to force it to open its markets and stop its theft of intellectual property — and is following through on that pledge. Whatever one thinks of Trump’s trade policies, he is doing exactly what he said.

Where Trump has failed to keep promises, such as building the wall or repealing Obamacare, it has not been for a lack of trying. Only in a few rare instances has he backtracked on a campaign pledge — such as when he admitted that he was wrong to promise a complete withdrawal of U.S. forces from Afghanistan and reversed course. I’m glad he did.

But whether one agrees or disagrees is not the point. When Trump says he will do something, you can take it to the bank. Yes, he takes liberties with the truth. But unlike his predecessor, he did not pass his signature legislative achievement on the basis of a lie (“If you like your health care plan, you can keep it”) — which is clearly worse than falsely bragging that your tax cut is the biggest ever.

The fact is, in his first two years, Trump has compiled a remarkable record of presidential promise-keeping. He’d probably say it’s the best in history — which may or may not end up being true. It’s too soon to tell.


Writes for The Washington Post.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:19 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yes, I did. It doesn't make any sense. Unless, of course, you can justify that he lies all the time with he keeps his promises.
I don't understand how you get that? He didn't justify his lying at all. He even pointed out that Trump lies.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yes, I did. It doesn't make any sense. Unless, of course, you can justify that he lies all the time with he keeps his promises.
Trump's lies are braggadocious nonsense. IT's him puffing his chest out to look and feel cool. It's like a guy who brags about banging 100 girls when he's only bagged 10.

The claim is that these lies are less harmful than lies told in order to trick people into supporting policies that harm them. Saying "I'm going to abolish the patriot act" and then expanding the patriot act while using that expanded power to imprison journalists is a good example. I'd say that lie is worse than "our inauguration crowd was teh biggest evah!!"

That's the argument being put forth. You can agree or disagree, but the point being made is that all lies are not equal.

You really shouldn't be confused about the premise. Are you just pretending to be obtuse or did you legitimately not understand what was being put forth?
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:34 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
I don't understand how you get that? He didn't justify his lying at all. He even pointed out that Trump lies.
I don't get it. This idiot says that he lies all the time but is the most honest POTUS in modern history.

That makes sense to you? You don't see the inherent contradiction?
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:36 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Trump's lies are braggadocious nonsense. IT's him puffing his chest out to look and feel cool. It's like a guy who brags about banging 100 girls when he's only bagged 10.

The claim is that these lies are less harmful than lies told in order to trick people into supporting policies that harm them.

That's the argument being put forth.
Fine. Then make that argument without stating that he's the most honest POTUS in modern history.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:42 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Fine. Then make that argument without stating that he's the most honest POTUS in modern history.
Writers don't choose headlines. Editors do. This headline is clickbait. The argument presented by the writer doesn't really say that. It says he's got a good record of keeping political promises.

So you can address the argument presented by the writer, or address the clickbait headline written by the editor.

I don't put much stock into headlines, other than I'm 99% sure the contents of the article will not match with the claim made in the headline.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Writers don't choose headlines. Editors do. This headline is clickbait. The argument presented by the writer doesn't really say that. It says he's got a good record of keeping political promises.

So you can address the argument presented by the writer, or address the clickbait headline written by the editor.

I don't put much stock into headlines, other than I'm 99% sure the contents of the article will not match with the claim made in the headline.
Did the writer choose to make this the first sentence of his article?

Donald Trump may be remembered as the most honest president in modern American history.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:47 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Did the writer choose to make this the first sentence of his article?

Donald Trump may be remembered as the most honest president in modern American history.
Fair enough, the format caused me to miss that. My bad.

Regardless, if you want to discuss semantics rather than discuss core idea being expressed, I'm already bored. Semantic arguments bore the **** outta me.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:50 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Fair enough, the format caused me to miss that. My bad.

Regardless, if you want to discuss semantics rather than discuss core idea being expressed, I'm already bored. Semantic arguments bore the **** outta me.
If the core issue is that Trump has kept many of his promises, that's fine. So have other POTUS.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yes, I did. It doesn't make any sense. Unless, of course, you can justify that he lies all the time with he keeps his promises.


So you claim they are lies...
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:17 PM   #25
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So you claim they are lies...
Sure, it's possible that Trump actually believes what he says, which is a really disturbing possibility.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:39 PM   #26
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Sure, it's possible that Trump actually believes what he says, which is a really disturbing possibility.
Or that you don't know the truth when you hear it. Perhaps it's not that big of a deal because you don't matter really, but still disturbing that you can't tell truth from lies. I blame your TDS...
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:43 PM   #27
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Or that you don't know the truth when you hear it. Perhaps it's not that big of a deal because you don't matter really, but still disturbing that you can't tell truth from lies. I blame your TDS...
Of course I do. And with Trump, it's not even difficult to ascertain. Reasonable people understand this. I realize you do not.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:47 PM   #28
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Of course I do. And with Trump, it's not even difficult to ascertain. Reasonable people understand this. I realize you do not.
Of course you don't, and you're not reasonable, especially when it comes to President Trump and his style. So there's that.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:50 PM   #29
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Of course you don't, and you're not reasonable, especially when it comes to President Trump and his style. So there's that.
A person who thinks that Trump doesn't lie is attempting to describe me as unreasonable...

Sure, that makes perfect sense.
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Old 10-13-2018, 01:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I don't get it. This idiot says that he lies all the time but is the most honest POTUS in modern history.

That makes sense to you? You don't see the inherent contradiction?
Reading is hard, Donger....

Quote:
But when it comes to the real barometer of presidential truthfulness keeping his promises Trump is a paragon of honesty. For better or worse, since taking office Trump has done exactly what he promised he would do.
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All kinds of people vote. Not enough of those people think highly enough of Trump to make him President but all kinds of people vote.
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So, if they were polling better than Trump and the primary goal was to prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS, perhaps it would have been a better strategic decision to nominate someone who actually had a chance of beating her and preventing that than nominating Donald Trump.
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