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Old 08-22-2007, 02:16 AM  
Boyceofsummer Boyceofsummer is offline
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Bush will invoke Vietnam in support of Iraq plans

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- As he awaits a crucial progress report on Iraq, President Bush will try to put a twist on comparisons of the war to Vietnam by invoking the historical lessons of that conflict to argue against pulling out.


President Bush pauses Tuesday during a news conference at the North American Leaders summit in Canada.

On Wednesday in Kansas City, Missouri, Bush will tell members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars that "then, as now, people argued that the real problem was America's presence and that if we would just withdraw, the killing would end," according to speech excerpts released Tuesday by the White House.

"Three decades later, there is a legitimate debate about how we got into the Vietnam War and how we left," Bush will say.

"Whatever your position in that debate, one unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America's withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens, whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms like 'boat people,' 're-education camps' and 'killing fields,' " the president will say.

The president will also make the argument that withdrawing from Vietnam emboldened today's terrorists by compromising U.S. credibility, citing a quote from al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden that the American people would rise against the Iraq war the same way they rose against the war in Vietnam, according to the excerpts.

"Here at home, some can argue our withdrawal from Vietnam carried no price to American credibility, but the terrorists see things differently," Bush will say.

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The White House is billing the speech, along with another address next week to the American Legion, as an effort to "provide broader context" for the debate over the upcoming Iraq progress report by Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. military commander, and Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador in Baghdad.

It is being closely watched on Capitol Hill, particularly by Republicans nervous about the political fallout from an increasingly unpopular war.

Earlier this month, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he would wait for the report before deciding when a drawdown of the 160,000 U.S. troops in Iraq might begin.

Bush's speeches Wednesday and next week are the latest in a series of attempts by the White House to try to reframe the debate over Iraq, as public support for the war continues to sag.

A recent CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll found that almost two-thirds of Americans -- 64 percent -- now oppose the Iraq war, and 72 percent say that even if Petraeus reports progress, it won't change their opinion.

The poll also found a great deal of skepticism about the report; 53 percent said they do not trust Petraeus to give an accurate assessment of the situation in Iraq.

In addition to his analogy to Vietnam, Bush in Wednesday's speech will invoke other historical comparisons from Asia, including the U.S. defeat and occupation of Japan after World War II and the Korean War in the 1950s, according to the excerpts.

"In the aftermath of Japan's surrender, many thought it naive to help the Japanese transform themselves into a democracy. Then, as now, the critics argued that some people were simply not fit for freedom," Bush will say. "Today, in defiance of the critics, Japan ... stands as one of the world's great free societies."


Speaking about the Korean War, Bush will note that at the time "critics argued that the war was futile, that we never should have sent our troops in, or that America's intervention was divisive here at home."

"While it is true that the Korean War had its share of challenges, America never broke its word," Bush will say. "Without America's intervention during the war, and our willingness to stick with the South Koreans after the war, millions of South Koreans would now be living under a brutal and repressive regime."


BUSH DID NOT SERVE DURING VIETNAM. HE RAN FROM THE COMMITTMENT. NOW HE WILL EDUCATE THE WORLD ABOUT THE MISTAKES WE MADE IN VIETNAM?
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:16 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyceofsummer
BUSH DID NOT SERVE DURING VIETNAM. HE RAN FROM THE COMMITTMENT. NOW HE WILL EDUCATE THE WORLD ABOUT THE MISTAKES WE MADE IN VIETNAM?
No, we've been waiting for you to educate us about the mistakes that far more educated and informed people have made.

Please don't hold back. We need you.

Just you.
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:22 AM   #3
Boyceofsummer Boyceofsummer is offline
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Your right...................................

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco
No, we've been waiting for you to educate us about the mistakes that far more educated and informed people have made.

Please don't hold back. We need you.

Just you.
the world's wrong.
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:39 AM   #4
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Don't lose your nerve, Boyce. Stick with the "Bush was wrong," "Condi was wrong," "Rumsfeld was wrong," "Patreaus is wrong," "Powell was wrong despite being right" thing.
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:49 AM   #5
Boyceofsummer Boyceofsummer is offline
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Your view of the world and Iraq.................

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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco
Don't lose your nerve, Boyce. Stick with the "Bush was wrong," "Condi was wrong," "Rumsfeld was wrong," "Patreaus is wrong," "Powell was wrong despite being right" thing.
is sad. NOT ONLY WERE THEY WRONG! THEY LIED ABOUT THE ENTIRE QUAGMIRE THEY CREATED!

It's called treason.
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:51 AM   #6
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Ther is no arguing with you and your..........

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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco
Don't lose your nerve, Boyce. Stick with the "Bush was wrong," "Condi was wrong," "Rumsfeld was wrong," "Patreaus is wrong," "Powell was wrong despite being right" thing.
historically flawed political view. Bye!
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:57 AM   #7
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they had it right all along yet, they lied anyway.

Powell, February, 2001: "He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."

Rice, July, 2001: "But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let's remember that his country is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyceofsummer
BUSH DID NOT SERVE DURING VIETNAM. HE RAN FROM THE COMMITTMENT. NOW HE WILL EDUCATE THE WORLD ABOUT THE MISTAKES WE MADE IN VIETNAM?
AS OPPOSED TO YOU EDUCATING US ABOUT THE MISTAKES WE ARE MAKING TODAY? BRILLIANT!!
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:40 AM   #9
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Stephen Colbert is funny as hell....















..wait, this isn't a skit?
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:53 AM   #10
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I've read that the nc's and Cheney in particular, are really emotionally stuck in the Vietnam loss and never got over it; that it drives them psychologically as a past bad experience. They've never let go of it.

Also Kissinger has been advising both Bush and Cheney behind the scenes. He was there during Vietnam too.

Just a week or so ago Bush was using the Korean model. Guess it could still apply.
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:13 AM   #11
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Bush isn't too bright. For him to turn around and say Iraq is like Vietnam gives his opponents the political opening of the decade.
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:35 AM   #12
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I listened to his speech while cleaning up the kitchen.... wutta fuggin moran! Amazing that there are still some Americans that can listen to him without laughing in his face. Unbefreakinlieveable!
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:41 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ugly Duck
I listened to his speech while cleaning up the kitchen.... wutta fuggin moran! Amazing that there are still some Americans that can listen to him without laughing in his face. Unbefreakinlieveable!
Parts of his speech nearly brought a tear to my eye. He is a heroic figure, IMO.
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:49 AM   #14
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Ya' know what's funny about this Vietnam thing. We weren't harmed at all after we left. In fact, now we trade with them.
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:57 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea
Ya' know what's funny about this Vietnam thing. We weren't harmed at all after we left. In fact, now we trade with them.
We were harmed a great deal. Our intelligence capabilities were broken by "reform" (and they eventually let us down in both GW I and the GWoT). Our global battle with Soviet communism moved to different venues but it didn't end.

But by far the biggest harm was psychological: We moved a long way in the direction of becoming a "can't do" nation instead of a "can do" nation.

That damage has manifested itself in our longtime impotence in the face of the islamist terror threat and now that we've finally engaged it, the psychological scars have made the American public seemingly incapable of sustaining support for the effort. It's really pretty pathetic.
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