Covitz: How the Chiefs’ brain trust has drafted in the past

[Tribal Warfare]

How the Chiefs’ brain trust has drafted in the past
By RANDY COVITZ
The Kansas City Star
New Chiefs general manager John Dorsey and head coach Andy Reid understand the value of taking a quarterback in the first round of the NFL Draft.

Reid, as head coach at Philadelphia, and Dorsey, as director of college scouting at Green Bay, were with teams that took players who became franchise quarterbacks. But they didn’t stop drafting quarterbacks in the later rounds of subsequent drafts, even when the position wasn’t the glaring need that it is this year with the Chiefs, who own the first pick in the 2013 draft.

From 1999-2011, when Reid was head coach at Philadelphia, the Eagles drafted six quarterbacks, starting with Donovan McNabb in 1999.

Beginning in 1997, when Dorsey became director of college scouting in Green Bay, the Packers drafted nine quarterbacks, even with Brett Favre — and later Aaron Rodgers — on the roster.

By contrast, the Chiefs, preferring to go the veteran route with guys like Elvis Grbac and Trent Green, have drafted just four quarterbacks since 1997 … and only one, Brodie Croyle, a third-rounder in 2006, appeared in a game (he went 0-10 as a starter).

When Reid, a former quarterbacks coach at Green Bay, became head coach in Philadelphia, the Eagles, who finished 3-13 the year before, owned the second overall pick in what was considered a draft rich in quarterbacks.

The Eagles chose McNabb one spot behind Tim Couch of Kentucky, who went first overall to the expansion Cleveland Browns; and ahead of Akili Smith of Oregon, who went third to Cincinnati, and Daunte Culpepper of Central Florida, who went 11th to Minnesota.

McNabb became a starter midway through his rookie year and was soon one of the league’s top-tier quarterbacks, leading the Eagles to five NFC Championship Games and a Super Bowl appearance. A six-time Pro Bowl selection, he became the first quarterback in NFL history to finish a season with 30-plus touchdown passes (31) and fewer than 10 interceptions (eight) when he guided the Eagles to Super Bowl XXXIX following the 2004 season.

Dorsey was in his eighth season as Green Bay’s director of college scouting in 2005 when the Packers, coming off a 10-6 season, owned the 24th overall pick. Though Favre had thrown for 4,088 yards and 30 touchdowns in 2004, he would be 36 years old in 2005. When Rodgers slid down the draft board — several teams ahead of the Packers were not in the market for a quarterback — Green Bay grabbed Rodgers.

Rodgers would serve as an understudy Favre for three seasons before getting his chance to start in 2008. All he has done since then is win a Super Bowl MVP in leading the Packers to the championship following the 2010 season and garner a league MVP title in 2011 when he set an NFL record with a 122.5 passer rating and broke franchise records with 45 touchdown passes, 4,643 yards and a 68.3 completion percentage.

Even with Favre and Rodgers in Green Bay and McNabb in Philadelphia, the Packers and Eagles kept fortifying the quarterback position.

During Reid’s tenure, the Eagles drafted three quarterbacks while McNabb was still starting: A.J. Feeley of Oregon in the fifth round in 2001; Andrew Hall of Delaware in the sixth round in 2004; and Kevin Kolb out of Houston in the second round in 2007. Kolb was targeted as the heir apparent to McNabb, who was traded to Washington for a second-round pick in 2010 and fourth-round draft pick in 2011.

But Kolb suffered a concussion in the 2010 season opener, providing an opportunity for Michael Vick, who was signed as a free agent after a two-year absence from the league due to a dog-fighting conviction. Vick emerged as one of the NFL’s top quarterbacks, leading the Eagles to an NFC East title.

Even with Vick and Kolb on the roster, the Eagles selected Mike Kafka of Northwestern in the fourth round of the 2010 draft, though he was released at the end the 2012 training camp and is now with New England. The Eagles traded Kolb to Arizona in 2011 for cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and a second-round draft pick in 2012 and took Nick Foles in the third round of the 2012 draft. Foles started seven of the final eight games of the 2012 season while Vick was injured, and Foles could be the future of the Philadelphia franchise under new coach Chip Kelly.

The Packers’ roll call of quarterbacks who were drafted as insurance for Favre and Rodgers during 1997-2012, when Dorsey was director of college scouting for general managers Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson, brought value in trades — and some of those guys became starters around the league.

Most prominent was Matt Hasselbeck, a sixth-round pick from Boston College in 1998, who would lead Seattle to a Super Bowl in 2005, four years after he was traded to the Seahawks for draft picks in 2001.

The Packers drafted Aaron Brooks of Virginia in the fourth round in 1999 and turned that acquisition into a trade to New Orleans for a third-round pick in 2001. While Favre was still a star, the Packers drafted Craig Nall of Northwestern (La.) State in the fifth round in 2002 and Ingle Martin of Furman in the fifth round in 2006.

And after Favre retired and then unretired to go to the New York Jets in 2008, the Packers, still unsure of whether Rodgers would succeed, took Brian Brohm of Louisville in the second round and Matt Flynn of LSU in the seventh.

Flynn set franchise records with 480 yards passing and six touchdowns in a 45-41 regular-season win over Detroit in the 2011 regular-season finale while Rodgers rested for the playoffs. Flynn then parlayed that appearance into a three-year free-agent contract worth up to $19.5 million with Seattle last offseason. Flynn was beat out for the Seahawks’ starting job by rookie Russell Wilson and could be available to the Chiefs in a trade.

But the Packers made sure the cupboard wasn’t bare after Flynn departed. With their seventh-round pick in the 2012 draft, they took B.J. Coleman of Tennessee-Chattanooga, and he spent the season on the practice squad.

QBs drafted by Andy Reid in Philly
Year Player Round
1999 Donovan McNabb, Syracuse 1
2001 A.J. Feeley, Oregon 5b
2004 Andrew Hall, Delaware 6a
2007 Kevin Kolb, Houston 2a
2010 Mike Kafka, Northwestern 4c
2012 Nick Foles, Arizona 3

QBs drafted by John Dorsey in Green Bay
Year Player Round
1997 Ronnie McAda, Army 7c
1998 Matt Hasselbeck, Boston College 6b
1999 Aaron Brooks, Virginia 4a
2002 Craig Nall, NW Louisiana 5b
2005 Aaron Rodgers, Cal 1
2006 Ingle Martin, Furman 5a
2008 Brian Brohm, Louisville 2b
2008 Matt Flynn, LSU 7a
2012 B.J. Coleman, Chattanooga 7b

[BigChiefFan]

Cassel doesn't cost us a dime, so we probably keep until, at least after the draft. We only pay him if he makes the team. We actually could get a low round pick. Win-win.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by milkman

I think most of the " benefit of doubt" people are the same ones that tell us that we aren't personnel people.

I don't know if I've ever said that before, but it's true isn't it? You're marginally educated guessers who sometimes get it right and sometimes get it wrong. You remember the times you were right and you have a good cornerback's ability to forget the Gholstons, the Clausens, the Lockers and the Brohms that you guys have pimped in the past. That's why you talk about rolling the dice on a first round quarterback based on statistics that show, unsurprisingly, that first round quarterbacks win more superbowls than quarterbacks from other rounds. I'm sorry to hurt your feelings, but I have more faith in the people who do this for a living than I do in you and your other delusional buddies who think you're smarter than they are.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Sweet Dick Willie

This is EXACTLY the kind of article ive been dying to see written in KC. That is the sound of truefannery getting sent to the corner and being told to stfu.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not sure what the definition of true fan is (and I suspect you've got some bizzaro, non-existent fan in mind), but the Eagles used their first round draft pick on offensive or defensive linemen 8 times out of 12 picks during Andy Reid's era. They only used it on a QB once. To be fair, they used it on the QB the first time and he was good enough that they weren't desperate for another, but their focus on linemen seems to fit what a lot of people seem to call "true fan" around here.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

patteau: TF-ing his way to glory!
Posted via Mobile Device

[O.city]

Originally Posted by patteeu

I don't know if I've ever said that before, but it's true isn't it? You're marginally educated guessers who sometimes get it right and sometimes get it wrong. You remember the times you were right and you have a good cornerback's ability to forget the Gholstons, the Clausens, the Lockers and the Brohms that you guys have pimped in the past. That's why you talk about rolling the dice on a first round quarterback based on statistics that show, unsurprisingly, that first round quarterbacks win more superbowls than quarterbacks from other rounds. I'm sorry to hurt your feelings, but I have more faith in the people who do this for a living than I do in you and your other delusional buddies who think you're smarter than they are.

Well, it is true about first round QB's.


And Scott Pioli does this for a living. Trust him?


Sorry to hurt your feelings, but this is the biggest bunch of bullshit ive read on here in a while.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

this. How soon they forget....
Posted via Mobile Device

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by O.city

Well, it is true about first round QB's.


And Scott ***** does this for a living. Trust him?


Sorry to hurt your feelings, but this is the biggest bunch of bullshit ive read on here in a while.

What's true about first round QBs?

[O.city]

Well, that first round Qb's have won more SB's than other rounds combined.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by O.city

Well, that first round Qb's have won more SB's than other rounds combined.

What round produces the most SB wins?....

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by O.city

Well, that first round Qb's have won more SB's than other rounds combined.

Duh. Shocking.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Duh. Shocking.

Yet we want to look elsewhere to find one, when statistics show otherwise?

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by O.city

Yet we want to look elsewhere to find one, when statistics show otherwise?

My point was that our local arm chair GMs are really basing their opinions on statistics more than all this hands waving about watching the games, good footwork, quick release, blah blah blah.

Statistics are nice, but you can't say that because more superbowl champion QBs are drafted in the 1st round than anywhere else that any stiff drafted in the first round is more likely to win a superbowl. You still have to pick the right guy (as evidenced by the statistic that shows that most 1st round QBs never win a superbowl).

[O.city]

Originally Posted by patteeu

My point was that our local arm chair GMs are really basing their opinions on statistics more than all this hands waving about watching the games, good footwork, quick release, blah blah blah.

Statistics are nice, but you can't say that because more superbowl champion QBs are drafted in the 1st round than anywhere else that any stiff drafted in the first round is more likely to win a superbowl. You still have to pick the right guy (as evidenced by the statistic that shows that most 1st round QBs never win a superbowl).

Well, no.


But you can say that the first round is your best chance to get a SB winning QB. So why go against the odds and try to get one elsewhere?

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by O.city

Well, no.


But you can say that the first round is your best chance to get a SB winning QB. So why go against the odds and try to get one elsewhere?

You wouldn't if you didn't know anything about Quarterbacking and you had nothing to base your picks on but past statistics. That was pretty much my point.

But if you thought you knew a lot about quarterbacking and what it takes to be a great NFL quarterback, you might look at a particular draft crop and decide that it's more like 1988 or 1996 or 2000 or 2002 than 1982. Even in 1999, when Andy Reid's Eagles shocked people by taking Donovan McNabb, they were either really smart or really lucky because none of the other guys taken in that draft, before or after McNabb, amounted to a thing (with the arguable exceptions of Daunte Culpepper and Aaron Brooks, the 4th and 9th QBs taken that year).

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Even in 1999, when Andy Reid's Eagles shocked people by taking Donovan McNabb, they were either really smart or really lucky because none of the other guys taken in that draft, before or after McNabb, amounted to a thing (with the arguable exceptions of Daunte Culpepper and Aaron Brooks, the 4th and 9th QBs taken that year).

Brooks and Culpepper were both very bright but very brief flashes in the pan...