DON'T fire Ned Yost

[Lex Luthor]

Ned made a great decision in the bottom of the 10th inning today. If Ned hadn't had Getz pinch run for Billy, the inning would have been over before Justin Maxwell ever came to the plate.

Everybody hates Ned and wants him to be fired. I don't. He sometimes makes game-time decisions that are easy to second-guess, but you've got to give him credit: the Royals have just about the best clubhouse atmosphere and team camraderie of any team I've ever seen. Ned deserves a hell of a lot of credit for that.

Not only do I think Ned won't be fired, I'm convinced he shouldn't be fired.

Edit: I was drunk with the euphoria of Justin Maxwell's walkoff grand slam when I created this thread. I have since sobered up.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Bambi

I got ridiculed for last week for sticking up for Ned Yost in one of the game threads.

That's why I don't post in them much anymore. Some of the Royals fans on this board don't know shit and it's annoying to have to deal with them.

Ignore lists are great.

I didn't see that, you getting ridiculed, but sticking up for him is worthy of it most of the time.

Yost is a below average MLB manager. Now, that only costs 1-2 games on the whole over the course of a season, but compare him to someone like Francona, and you're talking about a 5 game swing.

[BigCatDaddy]

Much like batting Getzy lead off should be a fireable offense; this thread should be a bannable offense.

[DaKCMan AP]

Originally Posted by Brainiac

the Royals have just about the best clubhouse atmosphere and team camraderie of any team I've ever seen.

[jettio]

Ned Yost is a good fit for this team and this market.

Brainiac is right that he deserves some credit for the Royals having good team chemistry and a good clubhouse.

Another factor that deserves consideration is how Kansas City has a lot of fans who like to think they are much smarter than the dumbazz manager.

Ned Yost has a talent for pulling enough genuine headscratchers to keep those folks proud.

Players have to play when they have a chance to make the difference.

Last night, Hochevar gives up back-to-back dingers to blow a two-run lead and Wade Davis has a great relief appearance to stop a walk-off victory for the Mariners.

The thing about baseball is you can make the consensus move and it is up to the player to make it work.

Louis Coleman might give up walks, hits and runs the next time he pitches in a crucial situation no matter how great the second-guessers think he is.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by jettio

Brainiac is right that he deserves some credit for the Royals having good team chemistry and a good clubhouse.

I actually agree with this. This is Yost's strength.

Originally Posted by jettio

Another factor that deserves consideration is how Kansas City has a lot of fans who like to think they are much smarter than the dumbazz manager.

Ned Yost has a talent for pulling enough genuine headscratchers to keep those folks proud.

Every fanbase in America second-guesses its baseball managers. I think Royals fans are actually more forgiving of managers than in other places. Low expectations.

Originally Posted by jettio

Players have to play when they have a chance to make the difference.

Last night, Hochevar gives up back-to-back dingers to blow a two-run lead and Wade Davis has a great relief appearance to stop a walk-off victory for the Mariners.

The thing about baseball is you can make the consensus move and it is up to the player to make it work.

Louis Coleman might give up walks, hits and runs the next time he pitches in a crucial situation no matter how great the second-guessers think he is.

Was there consternation in this thread about going to Hochevar when he did?

Yost's strengths (team unity, chemistry, development of young players) have started being outweighed by his weaknesses (poor tactical decisions, inconsistent tactical decisions, extreme loyalty to struggling players) this year.

Yost's yo-yo tendencies for strategies are my biggest problem with him. He's like the blackjack player who keeps changing his decision points on hit/stay. If you don't have a consistent approach, you run the risk of having the odds screw you more often than they should.

This team is going to go right down to the wire and probably fall a few Ws short. Ned Yost isn't atrocious or even the worst manager in baseball. But he is slightly below average (-1 or -2 a year). Swap him out with a good manager (Francona, Maddon, etc.) and you're looking at +3 or +4 instead. That's a big swing, big enough to put KC in the driver's seat for the WC.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I Swap him out with a good manager (Francona, Maddon, etc.) and you're looking at +3 or +4 instead. That's a big swing, big enough to put KC in the driver's seat for the WC.

Completely unprovable.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Brainiac

You forgot about the game where Shields was pitching a 2-hit shutout and leading 1-0 after 8 innings. Yost put Holland in and Holland promptly blew the save.

I can't really argue with any of the points you raised. Ned's blunders can be infuriating.

But he made one move correctly and he should get an extension!

[BlackHelicopters]

Where was Ned's Clubhouse chemistry wizardry in May?

[MTG#10]

Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop

Where was Ned's Clubhouse chemistry wizardry in May?

This

[jettio]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I actually agree with this. This is Yost's strength.



Every fanbase in America second-guesses its baseball managers. I think Royals fans are actually more forgiving of managers than in other places. Low expectations.



Was there consternation in this thread about going to Hochevar when he did?

Yost's strengths (team unity, chemistry, development of young players) have started being outweighed by his weaknesses (poor tactical decisions, inconsistent tactical decisions, extreme loyalty to struggling players) this year.

Yost's yo-yo tendencies for strategies are my biggest problem with him. He's like the blackjack player who keeps changing his decision points on hit/stay. If you don't have a consistent approach, you run the risk of having the odds screw you more often than they should.

This team is going to go right down to the wire and probably fall a few Ws short. Ned Yost isn't atrocious or even the worst manager in baseball. But he is slightly below average (-1 or -2 a year). Swap him out with a good manager (Francona, Maddon, etc.) and you're looking at +3 or +4 instead. That's a big swing, big enough to put KC in the driver's seat for the WC.

If Carlos Pena would have swung at one lousy pitch and fouled it off before striking out nobody in Kansas City would even think of replacing Ned Yost.

Ned's wikipedia page says he tried a career as a taxidermist after his playing career. I think that explains pinch-hitting Carlos Pena when he was scared to death and his appendix was expanding.

I can't see how Ned won't get a new contract. IIRC, he got a 2 year deal before the 2012 season. I think he gets a 3 year deal, IMO they should pay him a little more than he deserves per year, in exchange for having team options after each year, but I doubt his agent would go for that.

[jettio]

Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop

Where was Ned's Clubhouse chemistry wizardry in May?

I think getting new hitting coaches, Brett and Grifol, helped a lot.

Something about Dyson getting hurt on that unnecessary leap in Anaheim and the team going to that Oakland Coliseum really seemed to have a bad effect on the team, but I guess that those hitting coaches really did a terrible job also.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by jettio

If Carlos Pena would have swung at one lousy pitch and fouled it off before striking out nobody in Kansas City would even think of replacing Ned Yost.

Ned's wikipedia page says he tried a career as a taxidermist after his playing career. I think that explains pinch-hitting Carlos Pena when he was scared to death and his appendix was expanding.

I can't see how Ned won't get a new contract. IIRC, he got a 2 year deal before the 2012 season. I think he gets a 3 year deal, IMO they should pay him a little more than he deserves per year, in exchange for having team options after each year, but I doubt his agent would go for that.

Maybe the average/casual fan would feel that way. His issues are pretty far-reaching.

Carlos Pena is just one of the latest examples of flat-out awful decision-making by Yost.

Continually banishing Coleman to the minors while keeping guys like Gutierrez up is another.

Using Crow and Herrera in the second half MORE than Coleman

Sticking so doggedly with Chris Getz

Using Chris Getz in the leadoff spot

Using Tim Collins like he's a lefty specialist when his career sample shows he is far more effective against RHP pitching (this particularly murdered KC against Cleveland in a few different series)

Resistance to new baseball thought (which is why you see things like 2nd inning sacrifice bunts, using bad hitters in the 2 spot because they're fast and can bunt, etc).

He's not awful, but he's not good or even average overally, really. Ultimately, it's an inexact science, measuring managers performances. To use WAR terminology, Yost would be slightly below replacement-level, in my opinion.

That's still better than anything KC has had in ages, but not good enough to get it done unless he's given a MUCH better team to manage.

[Great Expectations]

Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop

Where was Ned's Clubhouse chemistry wizardry in May?

Keeping them together through that stretch and turning the momentum around is his wizardry.


Hire Charlie Manuel

[KCUnited]

Let's not forgot his masterful move to fire Seitzer to hit more home runs.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by KCUnited

Let's not forgot his masterful move to fire Seitzer to hit more home runs.

That was obviously a major blunder. But I think they're probably better off now with Pedro Grifol than they would be with Seitzer. Seitzer did a great job with Alcides Escobar, but the big guns (Hosmer and Moose) obviously weren't getting the right kind of help from him.