Chiefs Dear, Vikings: Thanks for our quarterback; Sincerely, Chiefs - Page 11

**DaKCMan AP** · 12-04-2008, 10:35 AM

Dear, Vikings: Thanks for our quarterback; Sincerely, Chiefs

By Clark Judge
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

I heard someone last week ask if there were any way the Minnesota Vikings could repay Kansas City for dropping star defensive end Jared Allen on their doorstep, and, yes, I said, there is. In fact, they've already done it.

Meet Tyler Thigpen.

He's the Chiefs' quarterback for now and maybe the future, but he wouldn't be in Kansas City if the Vikings hadn't cut him loose a year ago to make room for a reserve tight end.

The move was a gamble, and Minnesota knew it, but it figured it could re-sign Thigpen -- chosen by the Vikings in the seventh round of the 2007 draft -- to its practice squad after he cleared waivers.

Only he didn't clear. Kansas City claimed him.

Now he's playing so well that Chiefs coach Herman Edwards confessed he's considering scrapping the Chiefs' run-heavy offense next season and going with what works for Tyler Thigpen -- a more spread-out, wide-open, two-minute approach that usually has Thigpen operating out of the shotgun.

That can't be good news for someone like running back Larry Johnson, but it is for Thigpen. It means someone has a conviction about the guy, and that someone is Edwards -- with the coach considering a change next season from his offenses of the past just to suit his young quarterback.

If that happens, it means Edwards believes in Thigpen as his future starter. But he isn't there yet, and he emphasized that when I reached him Wednesday.

"We've got four games left," he said. "Let's see what he does. But one thing I do know: He's a No. 2. There is no doubt about that. That we know."

Others within the Kansas City hierarchy admit "cautious optimism" about Thigpen, who produced his first victory last weekend and who has played well for one of the league's bottom feeders. In fact, in a recent four-game stretch, he threw eight touchdown passes and one interception and took, in order, the Jets, Tampa Bay and San Diego to the mat, with all three games decided in the closing seconds.

Now, let's make something clear: Tyler Thigpen is not the next Eli or Peyton Manning. But he is a pleasant discovery in a not-so-pleasant season in Kansas City, and the Chiefs can address those "thank you" notes to 9520 Viking Drive, Eden Prairie, Minn. They wouldn't have Thigpen were it not for the Vikings' gamble.

The common perception is that Kansas City discovered Thigpen when the Chiefs and Vikings held a preseason scrimmage, but Edwards shot down that idea, saying Thigpen didn't play "that much" when the two teams practiced against each other. Instead, he said, Thigpen appeared on the Kansas City radar when he was a star quarterback at Coastal Carolina, with the Chiefs rating him a low fifth- or high sixth-round choice.

He could run. He had a strong arm. He was accurate. He was durable. And he won. Basically, he was everything you wanted from a quarterback, with a couple of drawbacks: 1) He didn't operate in a pro offense, working instead out of the shotgun, and 2) he played at a small school against lesser competition.

Nevertheless, when the team's vice president of player personnel, Bill Kuharich, watched him that summer in the fourth quarter of an exhibition game, he noticed something he liked.

"It was just the way he handled himself and the pressure," said Kuharich. "It reinforced what I had seen on tape. (Team president) Carl (Peterson), Herm and I decided if he ever became available we would claim him."

Which, of course, they did when Minnesota stuck with Tarvaris Jackson and acquired veteran backup Kelly Holcomb. Now, Holcomb is gone, Jackson is benched and Thigpen is playing for Kansas City. Hindsight is 20-20, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out the Vikings erred when they let Thigpen go.

I came to that conclusion last weekend when Thigpen led Kansas City on a 16-play, 91-yard drive that broke a 10-10 deadlock against Oakland. He completed three of four passes and ran for two first downs on that series.

I came to that conclusion again that afternoon when, on third-and-3 with just over two minutes to play, he iced the game by hitting Dwayne Bowe with a 12-yard completion.

"We've got ourselves a pretty good quarterback," said Edwards.

That's as strong a statement as you get from the head coach, but it tells you what he will not: That Tyler Thigpen could be the quarterback the Chiefs envisioned when they drafted Brodie Croyle in 2006. Croyle was supposed to be the Chiefs' quarterback of the future, but those plans have been scrapped because he can't stay healthy.

Thigpen can. He can also win, with last weekend's defeat of Oakland a breakthrough. After close calls against four opponents -- including New Orleans -- he finally demonstrated that he can close a deal, and that's what the Chiefs have been missing the past year and a half.

But that's just the beginning. They rave about Thigpen's mobility. In fact, it was the first quality Edwards ticked off when he listed his quarterback's strengths. Thigpen can throw with accuracy, too, with a string of 161 passes without an interception and a third-down passer-rating higher than those of Brett Favre and Jay Cutler. Plus, he's an outstanding athlete -- the only quarterback in Kansas City history to score a touchdown by running, passing and receiving.

"The question now," said Edwards, "is how will he continue to play and do we want to change the offense? I have to talk to (offensive coordinator) Chan Gailey, but right now I'm thinking we would.

"We changed everything to build the offense around him. It's like we're operating with a three-page notebook, adding a little with each week. Now the question is: Do we stay with this? Because it means you would have to do some things differently, like look at a little different offensive linemen."

The Chiefs have four games to produce an answer, but that they are even considering a change in their offense tells me one thing: They may have found themselves a quarterback.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/11149961

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-04-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Better Keep Carl as well...

That's bullshit and you KNOW IT. Carl will NOT be here after the 2009 season. PERIOD.

Get out of the batters box, put that weak shit to bed, and step back up to the plate.

Reerun_KC · 12-04-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You don't get it, do you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

If the Chiefs improve to 7-9 next year with more than 75% of the team still in their first contract (and the majority in the first and second years), what makes you think this team won't make a huge leap forward in 2010?

Like a playoff win and maybe beyond?

Well the same reason a lot of people including myself "just don’t get it".

I think you and I are debating two different issues here... Yes I feel the team is capable of 7-9 next year or better, but as I stated in a previous post, Herms game time decisions will cost us 1-3 games, Hell already cost us 2 games this year. The teams we have to face next year have coaches that understand the NFL and are miles ahead of Herm. So take that and factor in another 1-3 games and I can see the Chiefs going between 4-12 and 6-10 relatively easy... Its not hate or fact, its just an opinion.

I feel the talent is "at places" there Dane, but coaching is not. We have 6 sacks on the year... That is 6! Gun and Herm are to blame; these are Herms DL'men, Herms Tampon 2 and Gunthers, whatever the freak he is good for defense. Yet we can only muster up 6 sacks... We play so passive on _efense it is scary....

So are we going to debate the talent we have at certain positions and a team that could be middle of the pack next year? Or are we going to debate the coach that will ultimately keep them from reaching their goals???

Because with all the talent Mr. Keen eye has drafted over the years, all the holes he has fixed, all the players he has developed, IF he was so freaking great, why the freak is his record so bad, his teams always start the seasons slow, unprepared and injuries run through it like a Hurricane? The guy just doesn’t have "it" and it shows not only in his record, but his decisions when the stakes are the highest.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-04-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Because with all the talent Mr. Keen eye has drafted over the years, all the holes he has fixed, all the players he has developed, IF he was so freaking great, why the freak is his record so bad, his teams always start the seasons slow, unprepared and injuries run through it like a Hurricane? The guy just doesn’t have "it" and it shows not only in his record, but his decisions when the stakes are the highest.

Herm and Kuharich took control of personnel in 2008. The draft and the signings of undrafted free agents (Mike Cox, Maurice Leggett, etc.) along with waiver wire acquisitions such as Bradley have been among the best talent acquisitions the Chiefs have had in nearly 20 years.

This team had been built through free agency. Herm was given what he was given in 2006 and 2007. He went to the owner and asked that he have control over personnel. There's nothing else he could with the old philosophy.

Furthermore, if he didn't have "It", how was he able to get to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years in New York and in his first year in KC? Especially without the services of Trent Green and Willie Roaf?

Who would have thought that was possible in 2005, when the Chiefs had won on 7 games in 2004?

Back to Herm: Are you really not seeing improvement in this squad from week to week? Do you actually WATCH each and every game or are you going by reports on Chiefsplanet or the radio?

Reerun_KC · 12-04-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Herm and Kuharich took control of personnel in 2008. The draft and the signings of undrafted free agents (Mike Cox, Maurice Leggett, etc.) along with waiver wire acquisitions such as Bradley have been among the best talent acquisitions the Chiefs have had in nearly 20 years.

This team had been built through free agency. Herm was given what he was given in 2006 and 2007. He went to the owner and asked that he have control over personnel. There's nothing else he could with the old philosophy.

Furthermore, if he didn't have "It", how was he able to get to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years in New York and in his first year in KC? Especially without the services of Trent Green and Willie Roaf?

Who would have thought that was possible in 2005, when the Chiefs had won on 7 games in 2004?

Back to Herm: Are you really not seeing improvement in this squad from week to week? Do you actually WATCH each and every game or are you going by reports on Chiefsplanet or the radio?

There is a post around here that explains Herms coaching tenure in NYJ including his playoffs, if you havent read it, you should. Its pretty telling.

In 2005 the chiefs went 10-6 with DV, was strong at the end of the year, but the Dallas, Philly and NYG games cost them, I am not sure what Herm had to do with that, but okay?

In 2006, it was one of the biggest miracles in history, we needed what? 3 teams to lose and it came down to Denver and SF in overtime at Denver for us to make the playoffs. Yes we won an ugly home game, but by no means did we make the playoffs without the Lord Jesus himselfs help.

So his time in NYJ and the last two years are not Herms only drafts? So all that talent he drafted and developed was not his? Okay now I am confused? So we can only judge Herm on 2008 and not his previous drafts/tenures, unless we are looking at things that make him look good, like beating the Colts in the playoffs, but not anything else right?

Would be nice if the coach had a backbone in 2006 and 2007, instead of being a foot suffling porter to the King...

Reerun_KC · 12-04-2008, 04:59 PM

Dane, its been fun, but have to go for now...

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-04-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

So his time in NYJ and the last two years are not Herms only drafts? So all that talent he drafted and developed was not his? Okay now I am confused? So we can only judge Herm on 2008 and not his previous drafts/tenures, unless we are looking at things that make him look good, like beating the Colts in the playoffs, but not anything else right?

Would be nice if the coach had a backbone in 2006 and 2007, instead of being a foot suffling porter to the King...

You never responded to thread that showed all of the talent drafted by Herm and Bradway. There was a shit-ton, many of those players still with the team and guys like Abraham still out there kicking ass.

Mr. Plow · 12-04-2008, 05:25 PM

Dane, a serious question for you. You've been talking, in this thread & others, about the improvements the Chiefs have made this year & week to week. Over the first 6 games, would you have said the same things? Were they showing improvement? Also, were the FA's & draft picks looking good through the first 6 games or have they just started to come on?

PS....yes, I know that there is a transition period for FA & draft picks.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-04-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow

PS....yes, I know that there is a transition period for FA & draft picks.

Then why are you asking this question?

Did you expect the Chiefs to win more than 3 games this season?

Mr. Plow · 12-04-2008, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Then why are you asking this question?

Did you expect the Chiefs to win more than 3 games this season?

No. I didn't. Don't answer it. It's no biggie, just thought I'd ask.

Mecca · 12-04-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You never responded to thread that showed all of the talent drafted by Herm and Bradway. There was a shit-ton, many of those players still with the team and guys like Abraham still out there kicking ass.

I'm 99% certain that Abraham was taken before Herm got there...

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-04-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I'm 99% certain that Abraham was taken before Herm got there...

Yep.

The year before.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-04-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow

No. I didn't. Don't answer it. It's no biggie, just thought I'd ask.

There was individual improvement over the course of the first six games. Albert, Carr, Flowers, Charles, etc. While the team didn't necessarily improve, those players and others did improve.

With the addition of Bradley after the bye week and the change to the spread offense, the Chiefs offense matured and improved considerably.

It's a damn shame that the Chiefs front office and coaching staff weren't able to identify Thigpen as THE QBOTF in the off-season because it's possible that this team might be further ahead right now. But then again, they might not.

Mecca · 12-04-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Yep.

The year before.

Herms draft record with the Jets is like it is here..up and down so pretty average when you balance it out.

ArrowheadHawk · 12-04-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Herms draft record with the Jets is like it is here..up and down so pretty average when you balance it out.

The draft is a crapshoot for any team.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-04-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I'm 99% certain that Abraham was taken before Herm got there...

Yes, he was.

But those who would argue that Herm and his staff can't develop talent are just plain dumb because there's no way you're going to convince me that Abraham was "developed" by Al Groh in one year.

The thing that all these people who play the "development" card are missing is that you can't get blood from a turnip.

And the Chiefs have drafted a lot of turnips on the defensive side of the ball for the past decade.

12-04-2008, 10:35 AM
DaKCMan AP Beloved & Awesome CP Celebrity Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Florida Casino cash: $6764952	Dear, Vikings: Thanks for our quarterback; Sincerely, Chiefs Dear, Vikings: Thanks for our quarterback; Sincerely, Chiefs By Clark Judge CBSSports.com Senior Writer I heard someone last week ask if there were any way the Minnesota Vikings could repay Kansas City for dropping star defensive end Jared Allen on their doorstep, and, yes, I said, there is. In fact, they've already done it. Meet Tyler Thigpen. He's the Chiefs' quarterback for now and maybe the future, but he wouldn't be in Kansas City if the Vikings hadn't cut him loose a year ago to make room for a reserve tight end. The move was a gamble, and Minnesota knew it, but it figured it could re-sign Thigpen -- chosen by the Vikings in the seventh round of the 2007 draft -- to its practice squad after he cleared waivers. Only he didn't clear. Kansas City claimed him. Now he's playing so well that Chiefs coach Herman Edwards confessed he's considering scrapping the Chiefs' run-heavy offense next season and going with what works for Tyler Thigpen -- a more spread-out, wide-open, two-minute approach that usually has Thigpen operating out of the shotgun. That can't be good news for someone like running back Larry Johnson, but it is for Thigpen. It means someone has a conviction about the guy, and that someone is Edwards -- with the coach considering a change next season from his offenses of the past just to suit his young quarterback. If that happens, it means Edwards believes in Thigpen as his future starter. But he isn't there yet, and he emphasized that when I reached him Wednesday. "We've got four games left," he said. "Let's see what he does. But one thing I do know: He's a No. 2. There is no doubt about that. That we know." Others within the Kansas City hierarchy admit "cautious optimism" about Thigpen, who produced his first victory last weekend and who has played well for one of the league's bottom feeders. In fact, in a recent four-game stretch, he threw eight touchdown passes and one interception and took, in order, the Jets, Tampa Bay and San Diego to the mat, with all three games decided in the closing seconds. Now, let's make something clear: Tyler Thigpen is not the next Eli or Peyton Manning. But he is a pleasant discovery in a not-so-pleasant season in Kansas City, and the Chiefs can address those "thank you" notes to 9520 Viking Drive, Eden Prairie, Minn. They wouldn't have Thigpen were it not for the Vikings' gamble. The common perception is that Kansas City discovered Thigpen when the Chiefs and Vikings held a preseason scrimmage, but Edwards shot down that idea, saying Thigpen didn't play "that much" when the two teams practiced against each other. Instead, he said, Thigpen appeared on the Kansas City radar when he was a star quarterback at Coastal Carolina, with the Chiefs rating him a low fifth- or high sixth-round choice. He could run. He had a strong arm. He was accurate. He was durable. And he won. Basically, he was everything you wanted from a quarterback, with a couple of drawbacks: 1) He didn't operate in a pro offense, working instead out of the shotgun, and 2) he played at a small school against lesser competition. Nevertheless, when the team's vice president of player personnel, Bill Kuharich, watched him that summer in the fourth quarter of an exhibition game, he noticed something he liked. "It was just the way he handled himself and the pressure," said Kuharich. "It reinforced what I had seen on tape. (Team president) Carl (Peterson), Herm and I decided if he ever became available we would claim him." Which, of course, they did when Minnesota stuck with Tarvaris Jackson and acquired veteran backup Kelly Holcomb. Now, Holcomb is gone, Jackson is benched and Thigpen is playing for Kansas City. Hindsight is 20-20, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out the Vikings erred when they let Thigpen go. I came to that conclusion last weekend when Thigpen led Kansas City on a 16-play, 91-yard drive that broke a 10-10 deadlock against Oakland. He completed three of four passes and ran for two first downs on that series. I came to that conclusion again that afternoon when, on third-and-3 with just over two minutes to play, he iced the game by hitting Dwayne Bowe with a 12-yard completion. "We've got ourselves a pretty good quarterback," said Edwards. That's as strong a statement as you get from the head coach, but it tells you what he will not: That Tyler Thigpen could be the quarterback the Chiefs envisioned when they drafted Brodie Croyle in 2006. Croyle was supposed to be the Chiefs' quarterback of the future, but those plans have been scrapped because he can't stay healthy. Thigpen can. He can also win, with last weekend's defeat of Oakland a breakthrough. After close calls against four opponents -- including New Orleans -- he finally demonstrated that he can close a deal, and that's what the Chiefs have been missing the past year and a half. But that's just the beginning. They rave about Thigpen's mobility. In fact, it was the first quality Edwards ticked off when he listed his quarterback's strengths. Thigpen can throw with accuracy, too, with a string of 161 passes without an interception and a third-down passer-rating higher than those of Brett Favre and Jay Cutler. Plus, he's an outstanding athlete -- the only quarterback in Kansas City history to score a touchdown by running, passing and receiving. "The question now," said Edwards, "is how will he continue to play and do we want to change the offense? I have to talk to (offensive coordinator) Chan Gailey, but right now I'm thinking we would. "We changed everything to build the offense around him. It's like we're operating with a three-page notebook, adding a little with each week. Now the question is: Do we stay with this? Because it means you would have to do some things differently, like look at a little different offensive linemen." The Chiefs have four games to produce an answer, but that they are even considering a change in their offense tells me one thing: They may have found themselves a quarterback. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/11149961
Posts: 35,694

12-04-2008, 04:59 PM	#155
Reerun_KC Rock Chalk Jayhawks! KU!!! Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $8301160	Dane, its been fun, but have to go for now...
Posts: 934

12-04-2008, 05:25 PM	#157
Mr. Plow In Search of a Life Join Date: Dec 2005 Casino cash: $2007391	Dane, a serious question for you. You've been talking, in this thread & others, about the improvements the Chiefs have made this year & week to week. Over the first 6 games, would you have said the same things? Were they showing improvement? Also, were the FA's & draft picks looking good through the first 6 games or have they just started to come on? PS....yes, I know that there is a transition period for FA & draft picks.
Posts: 30,802