Home Mail Chat Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > Lonewolf Ed Lounge > Washington DC and The Holy Land

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-04-2015, 06:10 PM  
Cochise Cochise is offline
Unconstitutional
 
Cochise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Casino cash: $500
Seattle's $15 minimum wage redux

tldr version below:

Quote:
...

Seattle became the first city in the nation to implement the $15 per hour minimum wage this past spring. Fox News reports that one unintended effect is that workers who are earning the higher wage are asking for fewer hours, so they can remain eligible for low income government benefits like childcare and tax credits.

Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.

Local radio talk show host Jason Rantz on KIRO-FM noted the irony: “If [employees] cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people.”

“Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376,” according to Fox News.

...

“Some restaurants have tacked on a 15 percent surcharge to cover the higher wages. And some managers are no longer encouraging customers to tip, leading to a redistribution of income. Workers in the back of the kitchen, such as dishwashers and cooks, are getting paid more, but servers who rely on tips are seeing a pay cut,” Fox News reported.

...

Earlier this year, as the implementation of the minimum wage law loomed, Seattle Magazine noted that something appeared to be afoot affecting the restaurant industry in the city, asking: “Why Are So Many Seattle Restaurants Closing Lately? “Seattle foodies [are] downcast,” the magazine reported

...

The magazine went on to report that one “major factor affecting restaurant futures in our city is the impending minimum wage hike.” Anthony Anton, president and CEO of the Washington Restaurant Association, told the magazine: “It’s not a political problem; it’s a math problem.” He estimates that restaurants usually have a budget breakdown of about 36 percent for labor, 30 percent for food costs, and 30 percent to cover other operational costs. That leaves 4 percent for a profit margin. When labor costs shoot up to, say 42 percent, something has to give.

Shah Burnham is just one Seattle restaurant owner who believes that keeping her doors open is no longer worth it. She owns a popular Z Pizza restaurant location and says that even though her one store only has 12 employees, she’s considered part of the Z Pizza franchise — a large business. So she has to give raises within the next two years. “Small businesses in the city have up to six more years to phase in the new $15 an hour minimum wage,” according to Seattle’s Fox News 13.

“I know that I would have stayed here if I had 7 years, just like everyone else, if I had an even playing field,” she says. “The discrimination I’m feeling right now against my small business makes me not want to stay and do anything in Seattle.”

...

The Heritage Foundation notes the minimum wage is usually for new workers, with a low percentage of Americans receiving it. The organization also points out some other interesting statistics:

Over half of minimum-wage earners are between the ages of 16 and 24.
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers earn raises within a year—without the government’s help.
Only 2.9 percent of wage earners earn the federal minimum wage.
Most minimum-wage earners are teenagers or young adults, not heads of families.
Two-thirds work part time (defined as less than 35 hours a week).
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers live in families with incomes above 150 percent of the poverty line.
Just 4 percent of minimum-wage workers are single parents working full time, compared to 5.6 percent of all U.S. workers.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/sea...ent=2015-08-04
Posts: 55,816
Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.Cochise is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:09 PM   #136
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
MVP
 
Loneiguana's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Jefferson City
Casino cash: $22670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
He is pretty clearly stating that it's not his position.
He keeps saying things like this:

"I asked him probably a dozen times what rate would keep a single mother with two kids off of government assistance and he refused to answer"

Which is a straight up lie.

It's the federal poverty line. I mean, I don't even have to answer, the government provides the answer. You earn above this much with x amount of dependents, you don't get social safety net help.

I don't know how my position can change on that when the government's position on the wage cut off hasn't changed.
__________________
"Most of us can, as we choose, make of this world either a palace or a prison."
–John Lubbock
Posts: 10,572
Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:10 PM   #137
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
MVP
 
Loneiguana's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Jefferson City
Casino cash: $22670
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
If Seattle wants to set minimum wage at $15 it's their city. They have voters. I don't care.
I don't know what the net outcome will be.

As far as his old position being wrong or right - That statement is incorrect. I never said it was either. It was a standard he put forth as a way to show that minimum wage was too low. His reasoning was that people working minimum wage jobs relied on government assistance, therefore minimum wage was too low.
My question to him was, if that was his stance, where would the minimum wage need to be set.
Slightly above the poverty line the government uses to determine who gets those benefits?

Is this rocket science to you?
__________________
"Most of us can, as we choose, make of this world either a palace or a prison."
–John Lubbock
Posts: 10,572
Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:11 PM   #138
Donger Donger is online now
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W
Casino cash: $0
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
If that labor pool is filled with employees capable of doing their current duties as well as those of others once layoffs happen, why can't those same employees do that work now? You seem to be suggesting that this labor pool will suddenly become more dynamic. I don't follow your reasoning.

If they're capable of doing more, and employers will get them to do so in the future, why doesn't some enterprising businessperson take advantage of this latent productivity and make a mint?
Perhaps the workers who don't price themselves out of a job will have a little extra motivation to work harder?
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 95,306
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:11 PM   #139
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
Quit your bullshit
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bored of winning
Casino cash: $52899
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Do you have to be a liberal by definition to support min. wage increases? Can you just think it's a good idea?

Failure would be they roll it back due to public outcry or Seattle turns into some depressed hell hole while areas around it do ok. Success I guess would be life goes on and Seattle's economy chugs along. Do you have a different definition?

Teasing out specific results of this from the overall economy in Seattle is going to be tough. You'd just get a bunch of he said/she said from each side claiming numbers support them.
That's why I want to set the goalposts in cement today. Define success now so that we can look at the results objectively in a year and see if the move was a net positive or a net negative.
Posts: 41,870
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:14 PM   #140
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
MVP
 
Loneiguana's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Jefferson City
Casino cash: $22670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
What do you think the downside would be, since Loneiguana refuses to give his own opinion?
Refusing to be your intern and do all the hard reading work is not the same as refusing to give an answer.

I pointed you to one of the most comprehensive studies in the CBO report.

We even had a thread about that report where some of the downsides were laid out.
__________________
"Most of us can, as we choose, make of this world either a palace or a prison."
–John Lubbock
Posts: 10,572
Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.Loneiguana wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:14 PM   #141
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
Quit your bullshit
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bored of winning
Casino cash: $52899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
What do you think the downside would be, since Loneiguana refuses to give his own opinion?
We just covered this, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Not if it makes economic sense for the employer.

My point is that it would be rather ironic and amusing if these people get their raise and then some of the workers are replaced because they demanded a wage increase that results in them having no job at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
It will be neither ironic nor amusing. It will simply be predictable, because it absolutely will happen. The question revolves around the degree to which it will happen and whether or not the good outweighs the bad.
Posts: 41,870
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:14 PM   #142
Donger Donger is online now
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W
Casino cash: $0
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
That's why I want to set the goalposts in cement today. Define success now so that we can look at the results objectively in a year and see if the move was a net positive or a net negative.
Wouldn't a better goalpost be to see how many minimum wage earners who are on welfare today no longer on it in a year? Are those data even available?
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 95,306
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:15 PM   #143
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
Eat shit liberals
 
Prison Bitch's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lees summit
Casino cash: $60258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
That's only way you present any kind or argument whatsoever. Not by looking at what is feasible and workable for both sides, but only looking at one extreme that isn't even being proposed and will never be proposed. That's why your argument is just retarded. Whatever solution the country decides on is not going to be "Taken to its extreme". Therefore proposing possible problems that are only apparent when the situation is taken to its extreme is completely irrelevant. It's what idiots do when they cannot argue properly. Don't be so dumb.

But again, $30/hr is well within the parameters of our national income stats so would it be "absurd"? You might be right it would be unworkable but absurd it is not.


Consider this: you could double the net worth for the bottom 40% of Americans by simply taking the Walton Family fortune and redistributing it. Now I'm sure they would dislike it but wouldn't the other 77 million benefactors find that "workable"? Of course. Yet as simple and pain-free as that would be, we don't do it. Just as we don't double wages on biz owners just because it sounds good.


I don't have a min wage figure in mind nor do I oppose govt assistance programs. Pretty bold of you to call me "extreme" esp on this topic.
__________________
This latest murder in no way represents Islam.
Posts: 40,045
Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:16 PM   #144
Donger Donger is online now
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W
Casino cash: $0
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
We just covered this, right?
Sort of, but that's very specific to people being replaced with technology. Do you see layoffs for other reasons?
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 95,306
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:16 PM   #145
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
Quit your bullshit
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bored of winning
Casino cash: $52899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Perhaps the workers who don't price themselves out of a job will have a little extra motivation to work harder?
So people will work harder and earn more? I like it.
Posts: 41,870
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:19 PM   #146
blaise blaise is offline
In Search of a Life
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Plano, TX
Casino cash: $0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Slightly above the poverty line the government uses to determine who gets those benefits?

Is this rocket science to you?
So it is your stance then. I wasn't lying.
__________________
Dave Lane is a bigot.
Posts: 22,098
blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:20 PM   #147
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
Quit your bullshit
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bored of winning
Casino cash: $52899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Wouldn't a better goalpost be to see how many minimum wage earners who are on welfare today no longer on it in a year? Are those data even available?
Good God, no that is not a better goalpost. The number of workers earning minimum wage on welfare could drop to zero. It's still a failure if so many people get laid off that the overall number of people on welfare triples, though.

This is a plan to reduce the government assistance roles. Why would the barometer for success be anything other than 'did the number of people receiving assistance decrease'?
Posts: 41,870
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:21 PM   #148
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
Quit your bullshit
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bored of winning
Casino cash: $52899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Sort of, but that's very specific to people being replaced with technology. Do you see layoffs for other reasons?
Yes
Posts: 41,870
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:22 PM   #149
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
Quit your bullshit
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bored of winning
Casino cash: $52899
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
So it is your stance then. I wasn't lying.
Above the poverty line doesn't mean 'can support a family of three in Seattle without collecting child support'.
Posts: 41,870
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2015, 12:23 PM   #150
Donger Donger is online now
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W
Casino cash: $0
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Yes
Thanks.
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 95,306
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
Arlington Texas Process Servers
Arlington Texas Process Servers
Covering Arlington, Fort Worth, Grand Prairie and surrounding communities.
Tarrant County, Texas and Johnson County, Texas.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.