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Old 08-04-2015, 06:10 PM  
Eleazar Eleazar is offline
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Seattle's $15 minimum wage redux

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Seattle became the first city in the nation to implement the $15 per hour minimum wage this past spring. Fox News reports that one unintended effect is that workers who are earning the higher wage are asking for fewer hours, so they can remain eligible for low income government benefits like childcare and tax credits.

Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.

Local radio talk show host Jason Rantz on KIRO-FM noted the irony: “If [employees] cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people.”

“Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376,” according to Fox News.

...

“Some restaurants have tacked on a 15 percent surcharge to cover the higher wages. And some managers are no longer encouraging customers to tip, leading to a redistribution of income. Workers in the back of the kitchen, such as dishwashers and cooks, are getting paid more, but servers who rely on tips are seeing a pay cut,” Fox News reported.

...

Earlier this year, as the implementation of the minimum wage law loomed, Seattle Magazine noted that something appeared to be afoot affecting the restaurant industry in the city, asking: “Why Are So Many Seattle Restaurants Closing Lately? “Seattle foodies [are] downcast,” the magazine reported

...

The magazine went on to report that one “major factor affecting restaurant futures in our city is the impending minimum wage hike.” Anthony Anton, president and CEO of the Washington Restaurant Association, told the magazine: “It’s not a political problem; it’s a math problem.” He estimates that restaurants usually have a budget breakdown of about 36 percent for labor, 30 percent for food costs, and 30 percent to cover other operational costs. That leaves 4 percent for a profit margin. When labor costs shoot up to, say 42 percent, something has to give.

Shah Burnham is just one Seattle restaurant owner who believes that keeping her doors open is no longer worth it. She owns a popular Z Pizza restaurant location and says that even though her one store only has 12 employees, she’s considered part of the Z Pizza franchise — a large business. So she has to give raises within the next two years. “Small businesses in the city have up to six more years to phase in the new $15 an hour minimum wage,” according to Seattle’s Fox News 13.

“I know that I would have stayed here if I had 7 years, just like everyone else, if I had an even playing field,” she says. “The discrimination I’m feeling right now against my small business makes me not want to stay and do anything in Seattle.”

...

The Heritage Foundation notes the minimum wage is usually for new workers, with a low percentage of Americans receiving it. The organization also points out some other interesting statistics:

Over half of minimum-wage earners are between the ages of 16 and 24.
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers earn raises within a year—without the government’s help.
Only 2.9 percent of wage earners earn the federal minimum wage.
Most minimum-wage earners are teenagers or young adults, not heads of families.
Two-thirds work part time (defined as less than 35 hours a week).
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers live in families with incomes above 150 percent of the poverty line.
Just 4 percent of minimum-wage workers are single parents working full time, compared to 5.6 percent of all U.S. workers.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/sea...ent=2015-08-04
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:10 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
According to Loneiguana the mimimum wage should be enough for a single mother of two to be able to pay for rent, child care and all other expenses - without any child support payments from the father or government assistance - on 40 hours a week.
That probably would be closer to $30 an hour than $15 in a place like Seattle.
I disagree with the child support part. We have a responsibility to make parents financially accountable for their children, and economic policy should not be built around an assumed failure to do so.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:10 AM   #47
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Repost of a thread you commented on 2 weeks ago, genious.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=11613627
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:16 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
I noticed that Stevie was the last poster on three straight threads in DC, so I checked them to see what kind of wisdom he was dishing out this morning.









I wasn't surprised.
meanwhile, insinuating that Dane's a pedophile is top notch posting.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:22 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Drinking 6 glasses of water a day is healthy. Why then is drinking 50 gallons a day unhealthy? You can't explain that!
So what you're saying is that raising the minimum wage too much will result in harm to the business, unemployment, etc.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:24 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
I disagree with the child support part. We have a responsibility to make parents financially accountable for their children, and economic policy should not be built around an assumed failure to do so.
Blaise is a known lair.

He takes how the federal poverty line is measured (afford food/housing) and turns into everything under the sun.

It's a persistent symptom of his nagging case of butthurt.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:28 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
So what you're saying is that raising the minimum wage too much will result in harm to the business, unemployment, etc.
I have literally never seen anyone argue otherwise.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:28 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
So what you're saying is that raising the minimum wage too much will result in harm to the business, unemployment, etc.
Yeah, of course.

I'm on board with $10/hour and an inflation adjustment. If cities and states want to go higher (based on higher costs of living), knock yourself out.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:31 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Yeah, of course.

I'm on board with $10/hour and an inflation adjustment (beginning the following year). If cities and states want to go higher (based on higher costs of living), knock yourself out.
Agreed with this!
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:31 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
So what you're saying is that raising the minimum wage too much will result in harm to the business, unemployment, etc.
Yes, the hyperbolic extreme doesn't hold up. Which is as relevant in this case as it is with nearly any other.

Oh, one Aspirin is good for you, well take 500 then!
Drinking water is good for you, well drink 500 gallons today!
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:32 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Yeah, of course.

I'm on board with $10/hour and an inflation adjustment. If cities and states want to go higher (based on a higher cost of living), knock yourself out.
BEP's head might literally explode if minimum wage becomes indexed to inflation. She will have to argue that inflation numbers are simultaneously under reported in order to conceal the true devaluation of the dollar and over reported in order to force increases in minimum wage.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:49 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
That's the great thing about this. We don't have to take sides. We can simply watch the local economy in Seattle do its thing. Isn't that what conservatives want...decentralized governance? Or do we just want it when the local governments in Seattle do what conservatives in Kansas and Missouri think is best for them (because obviously we know better how to run Seattle than the citizens of Seattle)?

Just let it play out and see what we can learn. If it works, great! Let's expand on the success. If it fails, fine. Let's learn from their mistakes. Making lazy arguments does absolutely nothing other than to drive political discourse deeper into the gutter, and you're better than that.
If you believe conservative orthodoxy, states know better than the federal government and cities know better than states. In practice, there's plenty of evidence conservatives are promoting state preemption of local laws in a variety of areas:

1) Sick leave

Quote:
Since 2011, eleven states have thwarted local control through paid sick day preemption laws. Alabama and Oklahoma joined that list in 2014.

The paid sick day preemption effort can largely be traced back to the American Legislative Exchange Council, or “ALEC.”

At ALEC's August 2011 meeting in New Orleans, a paid sick day preemption bill recently signed into law by Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker was shared with the Labor and Business Regulation Subcommittee of the ALEC Commerce, Insurance and Economic Development Task Force as a model for state override. ALEC's Labor and Business Regulation Subcommittee at the time was co-chaired by YUM! Brands, Inc., which owns Kentucky Fried Chicken, Pizza Hut and Taco Bell.
http://www.prwatch.org/news/2014/07/....2eNLW2k7.dpuf

2) Wage increases

Quote:
Voters in 10 states—including deep-red states South Dakota, Arkansas, Alaska, and Nebraska—approved minimum wage increases on Election Day, as did many cities across the country.

Those new wage measures will likely get legislative push back in 2015, as ALEC teams up with Republican-controlled state and local governments to push its corporate-driven agenda. At the group’s States & Nation Policy Summit in Washington, D.C., ALEC officials included a presentation on “Minimum Wage Preemption Policies,” among other subjects discussed in its Commerce, Insurance, and Economic Development Task Force meetings.
http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/20...ncreases-2015/

3) And of course fracking
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:52 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Yes, the hyperbolic extreme doesn't hold up. Which is as relevant in this case as it is with nearly any other.

Oh, one Aspirin is good for you, well take 500 then!
Drinking water is good for you, well drink 500 gallons today!
Well, then we are left explaining why $15 is our stopping point instead of some other, which no one is ever able to explain.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:53 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
If you believe conservative orthodoxy, states know better than the federal government and cities know better than states. In practice, there's plenty of evidence conservatives are promoting state preemption of local laws in a variety of areas:

1) Sick leave



http://www.prwatch.org/news/2014/07/....2eNLW2k7.dpuf

2) Wage increases

http://www.alecexposed.org/w/images/...ct_Exposed.pdf

3) And of course fracking
It just further demonstrates that both sides are completely full of shit. Just as liberals who claim to love free speech are the first to silence speech they disagree with, conservatives love giving states/cities power to enact laws...as long as they're laws conservatives agree with.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:54 AM   #59
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I don't think I see any conservatives arguing that Seattle shouldn't be allowed to do this. We are just pointing out the early signs that it's going to turn out the way we expected. I am glad Seattle has decided to test the drug on itself and let us all watch, apart from the real people who will see their lives and businesses impacted.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:57 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Well, then we are left explaining why $15 is our stopping point instead of some other, which no one is ever able to explain.
No-one has ever explained this, or you've covered your ears and shouted "I can't hear you" every time someone has tried?
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