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Old 08-04-2015, 06:10 PM  
Eleazar Eleazar is offline
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Seattle's $15 minimum wage redux

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Seattle became the first city in the nation to implement the $15 per hour minimum wage this past spring. Fox News reports that one unintended effect is that workers who are earning the higher wage are asking for fewer hours, so they can remain eligible for low income government benefits like childcare and tax credits.

Full Life Care, a home nursing nonprofit, told KIRO-TV in Seattle that several workers want to work less.

Local radio talk show host Jason Rantz on KIRO-FM noted the irony: “If [employees] cut down their hours to stay on those subsidies because the $15 per hour minimum wage didn’t actually help get them out of poverty, all you’ve done is put a burden on the business and given false hope to a lot of people.”

“Despite a booming economy throughout western Washington, the state’s welfare caseload has dropped very little since the higher wage phase began in Seattle in April. In March 130,851 people were enrolled in the Basic Food program. In April, the caseload dropped to 130,376,” according to Fox News.

...

“Some restaurants have tacked on a 15 percent surcharge to cover the higher wages. And some managers are no longer encouraging customers to tip, leading to a redistribution of income. Workers in the back of the kitchen, such as dishwashers and cooks, are getting paid more, but servers who rely on tips are seeing a pay cut,” Fox News reported.

...

Earlier this year, as the implementation of the minimum wage law loomed, Seattle Magazine noted that something appeared to be afoot affecting the restaurant industry in the city, asking: “Why Are So Many Seattle Restaurants Closing Lately? “Seattle foodies [are] downcast,” the magazine reported

...

The magazine went on to report that one “major factor affecting restaurant futures in our city is the impending minimum wage hike.” Anthony Anton, president and CEO of the Washington Restaurant Association, told the magazine: “It’s not a political problem; it’s a math problem.” He estimates that restaurants usually have a budget breakdown of about 36 percent for labor, 30 percent for food costs, and 30 percent to cover other operational costs. That leaves 4 percent for a profit margin. When labor costs shoot up to, say 42 percent, something has to give.

Shah Burnham is just one Seattle restaurant owner who believes that keeping her doors open is no longer worth it. She owns a popular Z Pizza restaurant location and says that even though her one store only has 12 employees, she’s considered part of the Z Pizza franchise — a large business. So she has to give raises within the next two years. “Small businesses in the city have up to six more years to phase in the new $15 an hour minimum wage,” according to Seattle’s Fox News 13.

“I know that I would have stayed here if I had 7 years, just like everyone else, if I had an even playing field,” she says. “The discrimination I’m feeling right now against my small business makes me not want to stay and do anything in Seattle.”

...

The Heritage Foundation notes the minimum wage is usually for new workers, with a low percentage of Americans receiving it. The organization also points out some other interesting statistics:

Over half of minimum-wage earners are between the ages of 16 and 24.
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers earn raises within a year—without the government’s help.
Only 2.9 percent of wage earners earn the federal minimum wage.
Most minimum-wage earners are teenagers or young adults, not heads of families.
Two-thirds work part time (defined as less than 35 hours a week).
Two-thirds of minimum-wage workers live in families with incomes above 150 percent of the poverty line.
Just 4 percent of minimum-wage workers are single parents working full time, compared to 5.6 percent of all U.S. workers.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/sea...ent=2015-08-04
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:57 AM   #61
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Wouldn't $15 be near a tipping point where the employers would start looking at using kiosks and such?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:01 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I don't think I see any conservatives arguing that Seattle shouldn't be allowed to do this. We are just pointing out the early signs that it's going to turn out the way we expected. I am glad Seattle has decided to test the drug on itself and let us all watch, apart from the real people who will see their lives and businesses impacted.
So make a prediction. One year from today, will the unemployment rate in Seattle be higher or lower than the national average? Will the percentage of citizens on public assistance be higher in Seattle on 6/1/2016 than it was on 5/1/2015?

Anecdotal evidence of a restaurant closing in Seattle (as well as in other cities completely unimpacted by this law) is hardly an early sign of anything.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:01 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Yes, the hyperbolic extreme doesn't hold up. Which is as relevant in this case as it is with nearly any other.

Oh, one Aspirin is good for you, well take 500 then!
Drinking water is good for you, well drink 500 gallons today!
You think you're making a good point but it's awful. Nobody takes 500 aspirin because we all know the consequences. We don't know the consequences of $15 or even $30 min wages.


What Coch is saying is, "If you're saying docs should be fine doubling aspirin from 2 to 4, why not do 8?" And to that question you HAVE no rebuttal and no reason why the damages would be so grave. Just as you can't explain why $30 is some absurd number because in context, it isn't.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:02 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Wouldn't $15 be near a tipping point where the employers would start looking at using kiosks and such?
I guess we'll find out. Care to make a prediction?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:04 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Well, then we are left explaining why $15 is our stopping point instead of some other, which no one is ever able to explain.
I know you're trying to play dumb here. But there is certainly a limitation to raising the minimum wage. Throwing out absurd hyperbolic extremes doesn't negate any positive results from a properly set minimum wage that benefits both employees and employers. I'm not dead set on the $15 number. But just because it doesn't work at $500, doesn't mean it wouldn't work at $10. Because that's the silly point you're trying to argue...
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:04 AM   #66
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Blaise is a known lair.

He takes how the federal poverty line is measured (afford food/housing) and turns into everything under the sun.

It's a persistent symptom of his nagging case of butthurt.
I'm honestly shocked blaise ever posted that much content. I started ignoring him a long time ago after his 2000th post like:

"I am so stupid and I like stupid things."

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Old 08-05-2015, 11:05 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
I guess we'll find out. Care to make a prediction?
Do I think that kiosks will replace cashiers? I would certainly think so if $15/hour is more than it costs to acquire and run a replacement.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:07 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
I guess we'll find out. Care to make a prediction?
I care to make a prediction that drudge will find an article (probably on breitbart, theblaze or redstate) about one employer in Seattle who claims to be hurt by the new min. wage - which then will appear here as its own thread within 5 nanoseconds of its appearance on drudge.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:07 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
You think you're making a good point but it's awful. Nobody takes 500 aspirin because we all know the consequences. We don't know the consequences of $15 or even $30 min wages.


What Coch is saying is, "If you're saying docs should be fine doubling aspirin from 2 to 4, why not do 8?" And to that question you HAVE no rebuttal and no reason why the damages would be so grave. Just as you can't explain why $30 is some absurd number because in context, it isn't.
Yeah, who could possibly predict what the outcome would be if we raised the minimum wage to $500? We just don't know the consequences... Impossible rebuttal...

JFC you're dumb....
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:08 AM   #70
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Do I think that kiosks will replace cashiers? I would certainly think so if $15/hour is more than it costs to acquire and run a replacement.
Okay. So do you think there will be more people in Seattle receiving government assistance a year from now than there are today?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:08 AM   #71
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It just further demonstrates that both sides are completely full of shit. Just as liberals who claim to love free speech are the first to silence speech they disagree with, conservatives love giving states/cities power to enact laws...as long as they're laws conservatives agree with.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of anti-speech lefties either.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:10 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Okay. So do you think there will be more people in Seattle receiving government assistance a year from now than there are today?
What does that have to do with kiosks?
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:10 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I don't think I see any conservatives arguing that Seattle shouldn't be allowed to do this. We are just pointing out the early signs that it's going to turn out the way we expected. I am glad Seattle has decided to test the drug on itself and let us all watch, apart from the real people who will see their lives and businesses impacted.
Most of what conservatives are pointing out in Seattle are based on outright lies. Like the Z pizza thing.

Here are some more examples:

Quote:
Here's the rundown. Of the seven restaurants specifically mentioned in Seattle Magazine's March 4 post, one was reported by its owner to be located in the wrong neighborhood for its particular mix of bar space and atmosphere. Another is being offloaded by an owner who has three other restaurants in the city and is opening two more. (A neighboring restaurant is expanding into its space.) A third turned out to be too big for the clientele at its location. Three aren't closing at all, but are getting new chefs because their old boss is moving to Spain to join his partner.

How many owners cited the minimum wage as a factor in their actions? None.
http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...16-column.html

This whole Seattle thing is great.

It gives concrete examples of the lengths conservatives are willing to go to lie about data in order to fit their pre chosen narrative.

It gives concrete data on the affects of these laws to compare to conservative run states.

How is Brownbackistan doing? or Wisconsin?

Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton is a classic tax-and-spend liberal. So why is his state walloping Scott Walker’s Wisconsin in terms of economic growth?

Quote:
Dayton has raised the minimum wage, and he’s significantly increased taxes on the top 2 percent of wage earners to close a budget shortfall and to raise money for investments in infrastructure and education.

That Minnesota’s economy rallied under progressive policies while Wisconsin’s has struggled is “one more data point proving that trickle down is wrong,” says Madland. While it’s tricky to attribute the well-being of a state’s economy solely to its political leadership, Minnesota is experiencing much stronger growth than its neighbor. Dayton has also proved responsive to the business community, easing early fears that his liberalism might go unchecked.

Walker, on the other hand, has doubled down to the detriment of his state on policies that are backfiring. And if voters in his home state aren’t buying what he’s selling anymore, that doesn’t bode well for his presidential campaign.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ce=CSAMedition

Go ahead and keep believing these slanted and dishonest stories. You are just setting yourself up for disappointment.
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Last edited by Loneiguana; 08-05-2015 at 11:17 AM..
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:10 AM   #74
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I care to make a prediction that drudge will find one employer in Seattle who claims to be hurt by the new min. wage - which then will appear here as its own thread within 5 nanoseconds after drudge puts it up.
I want the liberals to go on record here as well. Both sides are equally good at running as far as they can and then drawing a goal line right behind them. I want people to define success/failure and to pick a side.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:16 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Do I think that kiosks will replace cashiers? I would certainly think so if $15/hour is more than it costs to acquire and run a replacement.
Does the Kiosk cook? Prep the supplies? Prep the food? Unload the truck? Clean the bathrooms? Clean the tables? Manage customer complaints? Do inventory? Clean itself? Program itself?

Worrying about technology replacing jobs... Our economy never recovered from replacing elevator operators with technology.
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