Have you ever used steroids, HGH, etc.?

[Saul Good]

Just curious to see who uses or has used these types of products and what your experiences were.

Did you have a specific reason for using them?

Did they work?

Did you experience any side effects?

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I know that it's illegal to take or possess without a doctor's prescription. I know that performance enhancing drugs like steroids and HGH are illegal for junior high, senior high, college, amateur, Olympic and professional athletes.

What else do I not have a clue about?

That they are dangerous. Not really. I mean, aspirin are dangerous and kill more people each year than steroids. Seriously, to say you overstate the dangers involved with them is putting it mildly.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by loochy

For some reason I thought blast and cruise was a really short cycle with a fast ester to get blood levels up fast and get some building in before your HTPA had time to shut down.

No, that's using a "kickstart".

B & C is 12 weeks on 100-200 and then 12 weeks at BBing type doses of usually > 400mg then back to TRT doses. Rinse and repeat.

[TheGuardian]

BigCat - Sort of a blast and cruise. I don't go under 500mg a week of test anymore for any reason. I mean, the whole point of getting on is that you weren't happy with what you were before. Just stay on. I don't get guys that go off. I've gone up to 1500mg a week for a while before. No sides. But I didn't find that I got much more out of 1500 than I did a gram. I hate tren. Everyone raves about it but I ran it for 7 days and had to shut it down. Made me feel like I had asthma, and I couldn't take that.

"Do you use HCG or do you have raisins?" -

Test never really shrunk my balls. I mean they did a little, but who cares about the size of your balls? I never understood this. You don't **** chics with your balls do you? And test and GH made my dick grow. This also is not uncommon, as Jose Consenco also wrote about it, and his wife verified. Since then I've talked to a lot of dudes who expressed the side "side effect".

Yes, test and GH can make your dick bigger.

As far as going off, no. I don't want any more kids. So why would I go off? Just stay on. In fact, test also acts as birth control and is more effective than the shit women take for not getting someone knocked up.

Most of what you hear, or read about is generally false. The media are the biggest bunch of idiots when it comes to this stuff that there is. Never believe a god damn word of what they write.

Second, steroids will not make you into a world champion. I know lots of guys on lots of shit that will never be elite level anything. It doesn't work like that. You can't just run a few cycles and get huge. I don't care what anyone says. I generally walk around at 265 pounds, very near 10% bodyfat. But that's 25 years of work. I've only been on for 5.

Your biggest "anabolic" is food. You can take all the shit you want, but if you don't know how to eat to enhance what it's trying to do with your body, what you get out of it will be minimal.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

That they are dangerous. Not really. I mean, aspirin are dangerous and kill more people each year than steroids. Seriously, to say you overstate the dangers involved with them is putting it mildly.

They are dangerous if not used properly. They can most certainly cause organ damage and organ failure.

This is a serious question, not a joke: Why do you believe that anabolic steroids aren't controlled and sold over-the-counter?

[TheGuardian]

Aspirin is dangerous if used improperly. So is a dildo. They aren't illegal.

Steroids are illegal because the idiots in congress got together after Ben Johnson handed Carl Lewis his ass, and said that he only won because of winny. It's hilarious. The ****ing Medical association and the DEA both stood up and said "do not make steroids illegal!" But they didn't listen.

So there's your answer.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Odd you cant get what I am saying and you call me stupid. Its printed right in front of your face.

Mealy mouthed ****? I'm the one who cant keep my story straight?

Did you get into your wife's brownies and forget what you typed?

You're not making any sense, Marcellus. I realize this is a common trait for you, but instead of quoting me on multiple occasions in order to make some kind of "point", how about using your own voice to convey your thoughts?

Or is that too strenuous for you?

[Fish]

Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD

So I've been debating about if to weigh in on the general issue of T HGH etc.

Let me explain to you my case. I have established family history of lower than normal testosterone. My father actually never realized he had it until he got his level checked and it was zero. My levels have been monitored for a while and were always well below what they should have been for my age group and yet still not clinically 'low'. Understand the normal range for T is ~250-800nl. It's a huge range.

A while ago after talking with my doctor we decided to try augment my T levels to something normal for my age group. I had read up on some of the issues about adjusting T and I was somewhat apprehensive. Make no mistake the human body is a VERY complex system and when you start fooling with one aspect of it the consequences are uncertain.

I started with a low dose of traditional HRT to augment my bodies natural level and put me into a 'normal' T level range for my age. For a while it worked as designed. But like any complex system my body slowly adapted to the increased T levels and started to shut down my natural production(note this was over a period of months).

When my doctor measured my current T level it was again in the level I was at pretherapy and he wanted to increase my dose from an augmentation level to a full replacement. I said no. I didn't want to fully shut down my natural production. The reason I didn't want to shut down my natural production of T is because that's not the only thing that's likely to get shut down. There are many other things that could be stopped being produced and the consequences of that are uncertain.

For people who are already at 0T they have nothing to lose from full replacement because they aren't producing anything naturally. For everyone else that's hard to say and it could have a variety of consequences.

When we stopped my HRT my T level plummeted to zero and I felt marginal for probably ~ a week. But then my body restarted its natural production. To explain how complicated a natural system our body is, when I had my T levels tested 4 months later my T level was higher than we had ever measured it and I was taking nothing....

To say my doctor was surprised was an understatement, but after they discussed it with a few experts they have a hypothesis on what actually happened. Pediatric Endocrinologists actually do something similar for kids to shock their system into producing T again after certain operations. They'll use HRT on the patient and then stop it to jumpstart their bodies into restarting their natural levels.

So we elected to do nothing and keep monitoring the levels to see what would happen. Like any complex system my body adapted yet again and returned my T levels back to where they were in the beginning. Not wanting to go on to HRT we elected to try a different therapy which is what I am on today. Note I won't talk about what it is because it's not something you should be going to the internet to find out about. This is something you should be talking to your doctor about.

Remember above all you are messing with a very complicated natural system and no matter what you do it's going to try to adapt to the change you are causing. Those adaptations are all uncertain as to their long term consequences. As much as people want to say they can do their 'internet research' to find out how to do this safely, that's mostly garbage. You could read everything on the internet and know only a fraction of what you need to know.

Why? Because most of what's being done is utterly uncharted territory. You can say steroids are safe and cycles help prevent some of the bad effects, but the documented heart problems of long term users tends to outweigh that. We simply do not have long term controlled studies to say what happens when you fool with your body like this. Plus there is a difference between placing levels in what should be a human norm and pushing levels far beyond what the body is designed for to get a performance advantage.

You have a turbo in your car and crank up up the boost a bit and you're probably ok....you double the boost and things are likely to break. We can replace an engine...it's much harder to replace your heart.

So this goes back to my original question I asked a long time ago...what are you trying to use them for? Are you trying to use steroids because you're feeling old and think they might help you recapture some of your youth? If that's the case then get your T levels checked at your doctor. It is a really undiagnosed condition because our levels drop so slowly it's hard for us to tell how we felt when we were 'normal' versus now. I personally have a good frame of reference because when I stopped HRT I got to experience the difference between 'normal' and zero over the span of days. But if it happened slowly over time I might have attributed it to aging.

If you're looking at steroids because you feel fat and think it will help lean you up. My honest response to that is that the problem isn't the steroids it's you. Get off your butt and hit the gym and eat right. Make the commitment in time and discipline and it will pay off. Just pumping yourself full of roids isn't going to make you skinny it takes time and commitment and you still need to put in the time to see the results. Hell dropping weight naturally raises your own free testosterone because body fat increases the rate at which testosterone is converted into estrogen. Why do you think fat guys have man boobs?(ok that might be a postulation since I personally haven't seen the evidence but it fits the facts!)

As to those talking about why sporting competitions ban PEDs. They don't do this because it give people a performance edge. If they did they would ban lightweight shoes, fast swimsuits etc. They ban PEDs because if they don't people will compromise their health and probably kill themselves in effort to get an edge in competition. They don't do it because PEDs are cheating, they do it because they will seriously affect your long term health.

Consider that when you think of using steroids because you want to look better. Put in the time, hit the gym and eat right. Like everything in life there are no short cuts.

Very good information here. Thanks. Messing with hormones is infinitely more complicated that most people realize. The way the endocrine system works with the nervous system makes it literally impossible to predict what does/could happen when you alter the process. It's never as simple as "Take this, and then this will happen." We just don't know enough about the process.

Commercials these days relating to LowT are nothing but fear mongering bullshit. I'd hate to think how many people these days are taking Testosterone therapy for the wrong reasons. But it's insanely profitable, because it relies so heavily on self-defined "Quality of life" metrics. It's scary that so many people are taking it not because an actual doctor recommended it, but because a janky LowT shop convinced them that they needed it. There are certainly valid uses for it, but more often than not it's being pushed as a trendy health fad.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

BigCat - Sort of a blast and cruise. I don't go under 500mg a week of test anymore for any reason. I mean, the whole point of getting on is that you weren't happy with what you were before. Just stay on. I don't get guys that go off. I've gone up to 1500mg a week for a while before. No sides. But I didn't find that I got much more out of 1500 than I did a gram. I hate tren. Everyone raves about it but I ran it for 7 days and had to shut it down. Made me feel like I had asthma, and I couldn't take that.

"Do you use HCG or do you have raisins?" -

Test never really shrunk my balls. I mean they did a little, but who cares about the size of your balls? I never understood this. You don't **** chics with your balls do you? And test and GH made my dick grow. This also is not uncommon, as Jose Consenco also wrote about it, and his wife verified. Since then I've talked to a lot of dudes who expressed the side "side effect".

Yes, test and GH can make your dick bigger.

As far as going off, no. I don't want any more kids. So why would I go off? Just stay on. In fact, test also acts as birth control and is more effective than the shit women take for not getting someone knocked up.

Most of what you hear, or read about is generally false. The media are the biggest bunch of idiots when it comes to this stuff that there is. Never believe a god damn word of what they write.

Second, steroids will not make you into a world champion. I know lots of guys on lots of shit that will never be elite level anything. It doesn't work like that. You can't just run a few cycles and get huge. I don't care what anyone says. I generally walk around at 265 pounds, very near 10% bodyfat. But that's 25 years of work. I've only been on for 5.

Your biggest "anabolic" is food. You can take all the shit you want, but if you don't know how to eat to enhance what it's trying to do with your body, what you get out of it will be minimal.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by Fish

Not sure what you're face palming about. I got no reason to lie.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Aspirin is dangerous if used improperly. So is a dildo. They aren't illegal.

Steroids are illegal because the idiots in congress got together after Ben Johnson handed Carl Lewis his ass, and said that he only won because of winny. It's hilarious. The ****ing Medical association and the DEA both stood up and said "do not make steroids illegal!" But they didn't listen.

So there's your answer.

So it's a Congressional issue? Well, that isn't surprising. But I would think that if people could actually make money legally creating anabolic steroids and doctors could earn money prescribing them, there'd be a bigger movement to make them legal. Right?

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

So it's a Congressional issue? Well, that isn't surprising. But I would think that if people could actually make money legally creating anabolic steroids and doctors could earn money prescribing them, there'd be a bigger movement to make them legal. Right?

There is bro. It's already happening.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

I've been on non-stop for 5 years. No joke.

No one here is the least bit surprised by this.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

No one here is the least bit surprised by this.

That's fine. I don't care. No need to be snarky about it.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The Guardian when he found out he made left bench:

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The Guardian when he found out he made left bench:

hah hah

No joke. I'm friends with Andrew.