Chiefs The Primary Flaw with Romeo's 2-Gap

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 09:17 PM

A few have been asking "Why don't we switch to a 4-3" and most have been like myself and have been campaigning for a switch to the 1-gap.

Now, Direckshun has posted a nice breakdown of the difference between the two philosophies, and I'll link that later.

However, the 2-gap isn't a completely flawed scheme. To run it effectively in today's NFL, you need to have DEs like Tyson/Dorsey who are solid against the run but also can diagnose run vs. pass quickly and then provide an adequate pass rush (pushing the pocket or obtaining a double team while still progressing upfield).

For example, the Ravens and Mike Nolan (D-Coordinator for the Falcons) still run a 2-gap philosophy. (Nolan runs a hybrid 3-4 2-gap and a 4-3, but I can talk about that later).The difference is that while the Ravens run the 2-gap (albeit, having their DEs play the 4-tech instead of our 5), they utilize a fire-zone heavy concept. Meaning, they will pull DEs into coverage occasionally and bring pressure from safeties, nickel and dime backs. Their philosophy is to "Rush 5, drop 6".

For those that think our Defense sucks, you're entitled to your opinion but it is wrong. To those that think the 2-gap entirely sucks, you're wrong as well. The main problem with this defense IMO is the inability to get pressure from our base front (3-4 odd, DEs playing the 5-tech). To play our scheme effectively, you need smart DEs who can address the play quickly and accordingly. Simply put, our DEs are not smart enough or talented enough to do so in our base front. Granted, Allan Bailey is fine from our sub package (playing the 3-tech), but can't be relied on in our base front because he doesn't play well against the run or quickly diagnoses run v. pass enough to provide an adequate rush, much like our other DEs.

I know most will just see a wall of text, but this will probably help several understand some of our defensive flaws and why we struggle against the pass in our base set.

Cliffs:
1. Our 2-gap requires players we have not acquired; it can still be effective but is much more difficult to do than a 1-gap philosophy.
2. The responsibilities for a 2-gap DE and NT are much more difficult than those of a 1-gap.
3. I personally would like to see our team go to a 1-gap. Attacking defensive lineman are much better served than run-stoppers in today's NFL.

I know most will tl;dr, but if you disagree with it, post your thoughts. We have too much bitching on this site and not enough discussion about scheme, football philosophies, and concepts.

L.A. Chieffan · 10-01-2012, 09:18 PM

THE 3-4 IS CASSELLS FAULT

**Reaper16** · 10-01-2012, 09:19 PM

Welp, we need to draft more 5-techniques in the first round then. Who's in! Anybody?

Chiefspants · 10-01-2012, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Welp, we need to draft more 5-techniques in the first round then. Who's in! Anybody?

I think a project offensive tackle would suit the 2013 team nicely.

Psyko Tek · 10-01-2012, 10:18 PM

ist n't the hole d line 1st rounders
and yeah I spelled it that way on purpose

chiefzilla1501 · 10-01-2012, 10:26 PM

Great post. I would agree with this.

Though, I still really liked what I saw from last year. The big differences (maybe I'll change that to "huge" differences) between this year and last year, though, are:

1) We need a ****ing DC. Romeo has been slow to adjust. In Atlanta, they repeatedly ran the same pick play on our man-to-man. No adjustment. In San Diego, no excuse not to give Berry a little help when he struggled on Gates early. In San Diego and New Orleans, why did it take so long to realize that stunting our linemen would help create pressure? Too, too, too slow to adjust scheme.

2) Kelly Gregg. He was somewhat invisible, but our Nose Tackle play has been atrocious. And we all know when that happens, everything falls apart. Berry and DJ might play more effectively if the Nose Tackle did his job.

3) Soft players. Our players used to hit offensive players in the mouth. Now they're playing finesse, read and react.

I agree. The 2-gap can work. I don't think it's as much scheme as it is this idiotic idea on Pioli's part to put Romeo in charge of both the team and the defense.

Titty Meat · 10-01-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Welp, we need to draft more 5-techniques in the first round then. Who's in! Anybody?

I'm paying to have a banner fly over Arrowhead that says "Fire Pioli Draft a 5 tech"

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay

I'm paying to have a banner fly over Arrowhead that says "Fire Pioli Draft a 5 tech"

I'll chip in if we can fly said banner with a picture of Tyson Jackson on it.

Blick · 10-01-2012, 11:01 PM

The smart people know that a 2 gap defense is more difficult to play than a one gap defense. That's why it's annoying that we run it.

Even IF you diagnose pass early, respecting the run as a 2 gap lineman has already set you up for failure on your pass rush because you have to play head up on the blocker to make sure you can discard your blocker to either side to play both of your gaps. You essentally end up blocking yourself that way by keeping offensive linemen in front of you instead of getting past them.

It just goes against the fundamental nature of defense...getting OFF blocks and attacking the football.

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:07 PM

Yup. Blick, I find myself repeating this to a **** ton of people here and I don't know what the requirements are for a sticky. That is why I made this thread.

As you said the fundamental flaws with the 2-gap is that is designed to stop the run and requires absolute monsters on your front 3 to provide a pass rush. To most of us that have some football knowledge, this is obvious. However, I keep seeing threads about the 4-3 and getting neg repped for telling people to use the search function. So, I make thread that hopefully educates people about defensive philosophies and our scheme. However, it will get buried and nobody will read it anyways.

Hammock Parties · 10-01-2012, 11:08 PM

Quote:

. Simply put, our DEs are not smart enough or talented enough to do so in our base front. Granted, Allan Bailey is fine from our sub package

Allen Bailey sucks. Believe it.

Two games this year he doesn't have a single QB pressure.

There are only two guys with a positive pass rush grade on this defense and one of them is not even Hali. It's DJ.

T-post Tom · 10-01-2012, 11:09 PM

Bring back the Falcon. Or stop pounding square pegs into round holes:

1. Tyson Jackson - LSU: 4-3 LDE
2. Glenn Dorsey - LSU: 4-3 DT
3. Tamba Hali - PSU: 4-3 LDE (Some say undersized for NFL 4-3 DE. I disagree.)
4. Dontari Poe - Memphis: 4-3 Nose Tackle

Could be a great 4-3 with Tamba channeling the spirit of DT.

Sorter · 10-01-2012, 11:11 PM

He has been underwhelming this year, especially for what I had expected out of him. However, he was directly responsible for Houston's game against NO. Watch the tape, you're fine at evaluating film.

FAX · 10-01-2012, 11:11 PM

The additional problem is that, even if your D-ends diagnose the play, ideally we would like to see Dorsey and Jackson take on a double-team and still get a pass rush. Good luck with that.

FAX

Hammock Parties · 10-01-2012, 11:12 PM

By the way, I agree that the 4-3 shit is stupid, though.

The main problem with the D is lack of talent, not scheme.

People want to believe we've built this uber roster but it's simply not true.

There's really only one good safety on the entire roster and he's gimping around like Sammy Knight.

10-01-2012, 09:17 PM
Sorter Caralho Join Date: Sep 2011 Casino cash: $9631474	The Primary Flaw with Romeo's 2-Gap A few have been asking "Why don't we switch to a 4-3" and most have been like myself and have been campaigning for a switch to the 1-gap. Now, Direckshun has posted a nice breakdown of the difference between the two philosophies, and I'll link that later. However, the 2-gap isn't a completely flawed scheme. To run it effectively in today's NFL, you need to have DEs like Tyson/Dorsey who are solid against the run but also can diagnose run vs. pass quickly and then provide an adequate pass rush (pushing the pocket or obtaining a double team while still progressing upfield). For example, the Ravens and Mike Nolan (D-Coordinator for the Falcons) still run a 2-gap philosophy. (Nolan runs a hybrid 3-4 2-gap and a 4-3, but I can talk about that later).The difference is that while the Ravens run the 2-gap (albeit, having their DEs play the 4-tech instead of our 5), they utilize a fire-zone heavy concept. Meaning, they will pull DEs into coverage occasionally and bring pressure from safeties, nickel and dime backs. Their philosophy is to "Rush 5, drop 6". For those that think our Defense sucks, you're entitled to your opinion but it is wrong. To those that think the 2-gap entirely sucks, you're wrong as well. The main problem with this defense IMO is the inability to get pressure from our base front (3-4 odd, DEs playing the 5-tech). To play our scheme effectively, you need smart DEs who can address the play quickly and accordingly. Simply put, our DEs are not smart enough or talented enough to do so in our base front. Granted, Allan Bailey is fine from our sub package (playing the 3-tech), but can't be relied on in our base front because he doesn't play well against the run or quickly diagnoses run v. pass enough to provide an adequate rush, much like our other DEs. I know most will just see a wall of text, but this will probably help several understand some of our defensive flaws and why we struggle against the pass in our base set. Cliffs: 1. Our 2-gap requires players we have not acquired; it can still be effective but is much more difficult to do than a 1-gap philosophy. 2. The responsibilities for a 2-gap DE and NT are much more difficult than those of a 1-gap. 3. I personally would like to see our team go to a 1-gap. Attacking defensive lineman are much better served than run-stoppers in today's NFL. I know most will tl;dr, but if you disagree with it, post your thoughts. We have too much bitching on this site and not enough discussion about scheme, football philosophies, and concepts.
Posts: 18,453

10-01-2012, 09:18 PM	#2
L.A. Chieffan PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: American Gardens Building Casino cash: $4098654	THE 3-4 IS CASSELLS FAULT
Posts: 17,367

10-01-2012, 10:18 PM	#5
Psyko Tek special teams Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mesa AZ Casino cash: $10015665	ist n't the hole d line 1st rounders and yeah I spelled it that way on purpose __________________ Psyko Tek The keyboard has been drinking,
Posts: 12,018

10-01-2012, 10:26 PM	#6
chiefzilla1501 In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $2184497	Great post. I would agree with this. Though, I still really liked what I saw from last year. The big differences (maybe I'll change that to "huge" differences) between this year and last year, though, are: 1) We need a ****ing DC. Romeo has been slow to adjust. In Atlanta, they repeatedly ran the same pick play on our man-to-man. No adjustment. In San Diego, no excuse not to give Berry a little help when he struggled on Gates early. In San Diego and New Orleans, why did it take so long to realize that stunting our linemen would help create pressure? Too, too, too slow to adjust scheme. 2) Kelly Gregg. He was somewhat invisible, but our Nose Tackle play has been atrocious. And we all know when that happens, everything falls apart. Berry and DJ might play more effectively if the Nose Tackle did his job. 3) Soft players. Our players used to hit offensive players in the mouth. Now they're playing finesse, read and react. I agree. The 2-gap can work. I don't think it's as much scheme as it is this idiotic idea on Pioli's part to put Romeo in charge of both the team and the defense.
Posts: 47,946

10-01-2012, 11:01 PM	#9
Blick Veteran Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: South KC Casino cash: $10004900	The smart people know that a 2 gap defense is more difficult to play than a one gap defense. That's why it's annoying that we run it. Even IF you diagnose pass early, respecting the run as a 2 gap lineman has already set you up for failure on your pass rush because you have to play head up on the blocker to make sure you can discard your blocker to either side to play both of your gaps. You essentally end up blocking yourself that way by keeping offensive linemen in front of you instead of getting past them. It just goes against the fundamental nature of defense...getting OFF blocks and attacking the football.
Posts: 1,209

10-01-2012, 11:07 PM	#10
Sorter Caralho Join Date: Sep 2011 Casino cash: $9631474	Yup. Blick, I find myself repeating this to a **** ton of people here and I don't know what the requirements are for a sticky. That is why I made this thread. As you said the fundamental flaws with the 2-gap is that is designed to stop the run and requires absolute monsters on your front 3 to provide a pass rush. To most of us that have some football knowledge, this is obvious. However, I keep seeing threads about the 4-3 and getting neg repped for telling people to use the search function. So, I make thread that hopefully educates people about defensive philosophies and our scheme. However, it will get buried and nobody will read it anyways.
Posts: 18,453

10-01-2012, 11:09 PM	#12
T-post Tom Threepeat! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Milk/Honey/Gazland Casino cash: $4617293	Bring back the Falcon. Or stop pounding square pegs into round holes: 1. Tyson Jackson - LSU: 4-3 LDE 2. Glenn Dorsey - LSU: 4-3 DT 3. Tamba Hali - PSU: 4-3 LDE (Some say undersized for NFL 4-3 DE. I disagree.) 4. Dontari Poe - Memphis: 4-3 Nose Tackle Could be a great 4-3 with Tamba channeling the spirit of DT. __________________ You seem nice! Last edited by T-post Tom; 10-01-2012 at 11:16 PM..
Posts: 20,191

10-01-2012, 11:11 PM	#13
Sorter Caralho Join Date: Sep 2011 Casino cash: $9631474	He has been underwhelming this year, especially for what I had expected out of him. However, he was directly responsible for Houston's game against NO. Watch the tape, you're fine at evaluating film.
Posts: 18,453

10-01-2012, 11:11 PM	#14
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	The additional problem is that, even if your D-ends diagnose the play, ideally we would like to see Dorsey and Jackson take on a double-team and still get a pass rush. Good luck with that. FAX
Posts: 44,492

10-01-2012, 11:12 PM	#15
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4790478	By the way, I agree that the 4-3 shit is stupid, though. The main problem with the D is lack of talent, not scheme. People want to believe we've built this uber roster but it's simply not true. There's really only one good safety on the entire roster and he's gimping around like Sammy Knight. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 277,528