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Old 11-14-2017, 01:24 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Alright, gun rights folks. You say the problem is mental health.

For years on this forum and pretty much anywhere I discuss gun control with 2nd amendment absolutists like many on this forum, I argue that we need gun control in various forms.

In addition to some of the more radical notions that "2nd amendment rights" are absolute, I also frequently hear that America actually has a mental health problem, not a gun problem.

This is an argument that many of you have aired.

So, I am asking for what policies you want to be seen to deal with mental illness.

Here we have a kid losing his shit on social media, and by all accounts is probably at-risk for doing something horrendous at some point (NSFW):



Feel free to ignore the text that frames the video by Occupy Democrats, as it's worthless. Focus on my question.

Now, obviously losing your shit in front of a camera does not mean you will shoot up a crowd of people, but I think if we're all putting together a profile of someone who could eventually do that, he fits the profile. (Also, imagine if this guy were black or Muslim.)

What is it, exactly, that the gun enthusiasts in this forum who believe America's problem is mental health, suggest that we do with this individual?

C'mon, folks. You told me the problem is mental health policy. Explain to me how you fix it to address people who fly off the handle and say crazy, violent shit like this.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:25 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
What many of them are actually arguing is much different. What they're arguing is that guns are just a tool that's constitutionally gifted to us with limited reservation, and that the gun violence and mass shootings we experience are caused by the mentally ill, and that's what we need to address (in some mysterious way), not guns.

That's a far less reasonable position than the one you're taking. I should know, I've spent a decade arguing with them.
3 words change the entire argument and it almost certainly more accurately reflects the argument that the folks you've spent 'a decade' arguing with are trying to make.

'Mental health' is a nebulous, nonsensical term that means nothing but because both the left and the right seem to see an issue with homeless people talking to the sky, they can all get on the same page and say "look, there's a problem". So yes, conservatives, as is the case in any kind of viable debate, are going to look for common ground somewhere to work from. And they're going to look at 'mental health' because that's one place where they can get liberals to stop squalling for a minute.

Because everyone will agree that this country has a whole bunch of sick ****s in it.

But by and large - the folks you're arguing with, when they're not just trying to say something to shut you up, I would suspect have little to no interest in further federalizing 'mental health', no matter how you wish to define it. It ain't their circus and it ain't their monkeys. Your side of the aisle is the one that wants to make every problem a government problem. My side would simply like to get you guys to talk about something else for a few minutes.

One of my favorite quotes is a simple one: "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

When it comes to the gun debate - conservatives by and large don't really give a **** what liberals have to say on the subject and don't have a great deal of patience for the debate. We'd just like to get you to talk about something else for about 12 minutes or so.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:27 PM   #62
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
IF you're going to stay on task with the leftist norm, you need to try to understand the plight of this youth who is obviously struggling. It seems he must be reaching out for help. In his video, it appears he is talking to ONE person, possibly an African American who is "messing with him". Maybe he's lashing out due to bullying.

You obviously have no feeeeeeelings.
All fair, but that doesn't change the fact that this dude could literally be a poster child for People Who Go On To Shoot People.

So, we have to deal with that.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:28 PM   #63
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Nah, the OP is posing a quandry to gun rights activists here to examine their alleged beliefs.

You're just saying I'm an idiot.

You're right, of course, but that's a whole 'nother topic entirely. Start your own thread about my stupidity and I'll be the first to post in it.
No, I pointed to a specific passage you made in this thread, and pointed out your dishonesty with it. It doesn't get more relevant than that, and that's too obvious for you not to see it.

So you're just continuing to be dishonest.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:31 PM   #64
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
3 words change the entire argument and it almost certainly more accurately reflects the argument that the folks you've spent 'a decade' arguing with are trying to make.

'Mental health' is a nebulous, nonsensical term that means nothing but because both the left and the right seem to see an issue with homeless people talking to the sky, they can all get on the same page and say "look, there's a problem". So yes, conservatives, as is the case in any kind of viable debate, are going to look for common ground somewhere to work from. And they're going to look at 'mental health' because that's one place where they can get liberals to stop squalling for a minute.

Because everyone will agree that this country has a whole bunch of sick ****s in it.

But by and large - the folks you're arguing with, when they're not just trying to say something to shut you up, I would suspect have little to no interest in further federalizing 'mental health', no matter how you wish to define it. It ain't their circus and it ain't their monkeys. Your side of the aisle is the one that wants to make every problem a government problem. My side would simply like to get you guys to talk about something else for a few minutes.

One of my favorite quotes is a simple one: "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

When it comes to the gun debate - conservatives by and large don't really give a **** what liberals have to say on the subject and don't have a great deal of patience for the debate. We'd just like to get you to talk about something else for about 12 minutes or so.
I'm afraid when we've had 400 mass shootings in a calendar year, changing the subject is simply not an option.

If the conservative attempt to even find middle ground is to suggest a topic that they have no interest in even reforming, then proclaiming "mental health is the issue we should deal with!" in the wake of calls for gun control is literally just saying "we should do nothing" by another name. Am I wrong?
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:31 PM   #65
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I like how Duterte handles the drug problem. Would be a good way to handle the homeless here.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:31 PM   #66
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
No, I pointed to a specific passage you made in this thread, and pointed out your dishonesty with it.
I'm afraid you'll have to be more specific.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:32 PM   #67
Just Passin' By Just Passin' By is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
All fair, but that doesn't change the fact that this dude could literally be a poster child for People Who Go On To Shoot People.

So, we have to deal with that.
No, we don't. Not everything requires a "we".
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:33 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm afraid you'll have to be more specific.
Given that I quoted the passage and commented on it, no I won't have to be more specific. That's as specific as it gets.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:33 PM   #69
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
No, we don't.
If that pairing of mental illness and guns take a turn for the worse, we're very possibly going to have to deal with it.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:33 PM   #70
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The funny part is, the liberals would wig out over any substantive preemptive measures to combat this sort of thing as a violation of the batshit crazy person's rights, much in the same way they squeal, piss and moan about the rights of criminals who commit violent crimes.

Instead, as always, just blame the inanimate object.

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Old 11-14-2017, 03:33 PM   #71
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
Given that I quoted the passage and commented on it, no I won't have to be more specific. That's as specific as it gets.
Alrighty.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:36 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm afraid when we've had 400 mass shootings in a calendar year, changing the subject is simply not an option.
What was your cutoff number that changed it from being an option?
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:36 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frazod View Post
The funny part is, the liberals would wig out over any substantive preemptive measures to combat this sort of thing as a violation of the batshit crazy person's rights, much in the same way they squeal, piss and moan about the rights of criminals who commit violent crimes.

Instead, as always, just blame the inanimate object.

Same thing with the travel ban and etc.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:37 PM   #74
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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What was your cutoff number that changed it from being an option?
I have no idea what my standards used to be -- this thing was never on my radar until it became damn near a daily occurrence.

I'd like to see us get it down to the levels the rest of the Western world deals with, though. That's the threshold I'd shoot for.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:38 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm afraid when we've had 400 mass shootings in a calendar year, changing the subject is simply not an option.

If the conservative attempt to even find middle ground is to suggest a topic that they have no interest in even reforming, then proclaiming "mental health is the issue we should deal with!" in the wake of calls for gun control is literally just saying "we should do nothing" by another name. Am I wrong?
If you believe the problem with mass shootings is a result of guns in this country, there should be only one acceptable solution for you and that's confiscation.

So get to work, lads. The conversation is over - conservatives aren't interested in having it and frankly all liberals have to say is "common sense gun control" anyway. Meanwhile they can't ever seem to point to measures that would actually impact any of the shootings in question.

So just say what you want - confiscation - and set about trying to make it happen. Why continue to flap your lips when we all know that you're just hoping that at some point something gruesome enough happens for you guys to go on your gun grab.
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